do you believe in god

[Guest!mator]

just curious

if you don't know and are afraid that if you say no and there is a god you will be punished then just say yes... only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no....if that makes any sense at all

[cool guy]

nope

[R-MONEY$$$]

define god and I can answer that.

[macon deals]

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

[formerly galenaskater]

god as in some form of higher power that was somehow responsible for the creation of the universe.

yes

but

believe in organized religions that have been set up to exploit people (and give some sort of hope for many people but always at a price)

NO NO NO

[PA]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

[Guest!mator]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

[R-MONEY$$$]

Your definition makes me think "I don't know".

[Krantz]

just curious

if you don't know and are afraid that if you say no and there is a god you will be punished then just say yes... only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no....if that makes any sense at all

Firstly, I think you need to clarify your terms. Do you mean in a deistic or theistic sense? As for a celestial dictatorship, no I don't.

Furthermore, if there was a God, I think he'd have more respect for an anti-theist who is willing to stand up for his beliefs than for a grovelling serf who just follows him for fear of the more rational option being false.

[R-MONEY$$$]

here we go :roll:




:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Shahiem]

I do.

[PA]

this thread sucks

[Krantz]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

I think you're mistaking the term God for something else. If you follow the intelligent design principle then you're left with regression. I think Bertrand Russell said it better than I ever could...

"If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu’s view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, “How about the tortoise?” the Indian said, “Suppose we change the subject.” "

[drew_amato]

yeah i'm real.

[Charlie Hustles]

surf

*serf



I believe that I am God (and nature too, but we are one, ya heard). You can be too!

[Krantz]

here we go :roll:




:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL I read the thread title and thought about you! We've already had this conversation, so my quabble isn't with you. I was fairly drunk at the time, but I'm pretty sure we kissed and made up. Still waiting for obligatorry make-up butt-secks though.

:shock: :oops: :cry:

[gen2roller]

I believe in Drew Amato

[Krantz]

surf

*serf



I believe that I am God (and nature too, but we are one, ya heard). You can be too!

Thanks Charlie, I missed that.

[Krantz]

I believe in Drew Amato

Seconded.

I was going to go worship him, but it was a straight tie between that and Jediism.

[drew_amato]

I believe in Drew Amato

Seconded.

I was going to go worship him, but it was a straight tie between that and Jediism.
Jedis don't have shit on me.

[Krantz]

I believe in Drew Amato

Seconded.

I was going to go worship him, but it was a straight tie between that and Jediism.
Jedis don't have shit on me.

I know, but Yoda threw in a hand-job.

At least...I think it was yoda.

:shock:

[drew_amato]

I believe in Drew Amato

Seconded.

I was going to go worship him, but it was a straight tie between that and Jediism.
Jedis don't have shit on me.

I know, but Yoda threw in a hand-job.

At least...I think it was yoda.

:shock:

PM me. Yodas handjob has nothing on what I will do.

[Guest!mator]

well, i just can't explain this:

if there was a god, he wouldn't "set us up to fail". human nature involves problem solving(back in the day when we were hunter/gatherer and in order to stay alive we had to out-wit the prey). we were constantly looking for an easier way to provide for our families...that doesnt sound wrong. well now that we have come to understand the universe on a deeper and more elemental level, we can't find any proof to support the existence of a god.

now think about the implications of this situation. why would an all knowing all powerful "god" set us up to fail, meaning, a product of our never ending curiousity of the universe has led us to a point where we can no longer believe in a creator because everything makes sense on it's own/without a creator.

The properties of matter and energy can explain how life has formed and not on any other planets. Its hard to imagine that all life on earth has presumeably evolved from one single ancestor. This was just a random mutation over 4 billion years ago- a chemical had found a unique way to replicate itself(i.e.-cell division, dna replication, rna transcription into proteins) basically life can be explained on a chemical level to have risen from the atmospheric conditions in an early earth, however, it's a lot to swallow due to the complexity of a human....that's where god comes in...in the past god was used as something to protect humans from what they didnt understand. meaning, now we can explain how plants absorb a certain wavelengths of light from the sun(following predictable chemical properties) to excite a reaction to synthesize sugars/ energy while releasing oxygen. All of these chemical reactions, though very very complex, can be explained without throwing out the "god did it" phrase.

This may piss a lot of people off, but think about it this way, it's easy to believe in an I-Phone, the same technology behind the iphone is what is currently providing a lack of proof of a deity.

The rammifications of this don't lead me into a depressed hole of doubt, depression, and death. In fact, the realization that we're no longer bouded by an invisible being doesn't make me want to act immoral or lose love for life. It doesn't make me be afraid of a catastrophic event or of dying tomorrow, it makes me realize how wonderful it is to have not died yesterday! we are truly so lucky that we can pick and choose our own destiny and religious beliefs. Who's to say, since there's not proof of just one god/monotheism, that there isn't an equal possibility for a multitude of gods such as the egyptians and greeks invented. Couldn't you then argue that Atheism is just another doctrine of religion which there is an equal amount of proof and support...

[jay cocain]

i dont know if your money rith.. but a naiga like me got paper..

[Krantz]

I believe in Drew Amato

Seconded.

I was going to go worship him, but it was a straight tie between that and Jediism.
Jedis don't have shit on me.

I know, but Yoda threw in a hand-job.

At least...I think it was yoda.

:shock:

PM me. Yodas handjob has nothing on what I will do.

That's funny, because that's exactly what my priest told me when I went to catholic school.


:lol:

[drew_amato]

well, i just can't explain this:

if there was a god, he wouldn't "set us up to fail". human nature involves problem solving(back in the day when we were hunter/gatherer and in order to stay alive we had to out-wit the prey). we were constantly looking for an easier way to provide for our families...that doesnt sound wrong. well now that we have come to understand the universe on a deeper and more elemental level, we can't find any proof to support the existence of a god.

now think about the implications of this situation. why would an all knowing all powerful "god" set us up to fail, meaning, a product of our never ending curiousity of the universe has led us to a point where we can no longer believe in a creator because everything makes sense on it's own/without a creator.

The properties of matter and energy can explain how life has formed and not on any other planets. Its hard to imagine that all life on earth has presumeably evolved from one single ancestor. This was just a random mutation over 4 billion years ago- a chemical had found a unique way to replicate itself(i.e.-cell division, dna replication, rna transcription into proteins) basically life can be explained on a chemical level to have risen from the atmospheric conditions in an early earth, however, it's a lot to swallow due to the complexity of a human....that's where god comes in...in the past god was used as something to protect humans from what they didnt understand. meaning, now we can explain how plants absorb a certain wavelengths of light from the sun(following predictable chemical properties) to excite a reaction to synthesize sugars/ energy while releasing oxygen. All of these chemical reactions, though very very complex, can be explained without throwing out the "god did it" phrase.

This may piss a lot of people off, but think about it this way, it's easy to believe in an I-Phone, the same technology behind the iphone is what is currently providing a lack of proof of a deity.

The rammifications of this don't lead me into a depressed hole of doubt, depression, and death. In fact, the realization that we're no longer bouded by an invisible being doesn't make me want to act immoral or lose love for life. It doesn't make me be afraid of a catastrophic event or of dying tomorrow, it makes me realize how wonderful it is to have not died yesterday! we are truly so lucky that we can pick and choose our own destiny and religious beliefs. Who's to say, since there's not proof of just one god/monotheism, that there isn't an equal possibility for a multitude of gods such as the egyptians and greeks invented. Couldn't you then argue that Atheism is just another doctrine of religion which there is an equal amount of proof and support...


My dick is made of marble. Explain that and tell me I don't exist. I'm just testing you and the rest of this civilization. Suck my marble balls I AM RILL BITCH.

[Guest!mator]

i think marbles are made of Si-O2, which is another form of glass containing impurities to enhance color. it's not organic so it wouldnt function as a biological vessel, such as your balls.

[drew_amato]

i think marbles are made of Si-O2, which is another form of glass containing impurities to enhance color. it's not organic so it wouldnt function as a biological vessel, such as your balls.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/2114865582_1656ebdfe7.jpg

work of god.

[F1SHy]

i think marbles are made of Si-O2, which is another form of glass containing impurities to enhance color. it's not organic so it wouldnt function as a biological vessel, such as your balls.

PREACH

[drew_amato]

I'm god, I can make my semen flow through anything.

[Charlie Hustles]

i dont know if your money rith.. but a naiga like me got paper..

YES!

[Krantz]

Who's to say, since there's not proof of just one god/monotheism, that there isn't an equal possibility for a multitude of gods such as the egyptians and greeks invented. Couldn't you then argue that Atheism is just another doctrine of religion which there is an equal amount of proof and support...

I loved everything you had to write up until this point. Since there's zero proof for one God, then the equal possibility for a multitude of Gods would be zero too.

Plus, everyone is Atheist to 9,999 of the approximate 10,000 Gods through-out human history.

Also, I don't understand your last point about Atheism. Are you trying to say there's an equal amount of proof for the lack of a God as there is for one? The laws of the universe works without that assumption, and you're obviously an intelligent person, and don't take this the wrong way but maybe if you could articulate your point a little better then we could have quite an engaging debate.

[Charlie Hustles]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

[_doesitmatter_]

i cant believe in myself let alone believing in someone who doesnt exist.

[Delusional Daniel]

God exists

[Krantz]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

Again, the universe works without that pressumption. I think it's a rather egotistical concept that only a species as arrogant us would come up with. We're pattern seeking primates, and just because we see everything as being full of majesty and wonder, it doesn’t mean it actually is. I think you’re using the term God as an interchangeable term for something else. I really think we need to define our terms in this thread or we’re going to have wires crossed all over the place.

[Delusional Daniel]

WoF u are so fucking stupid. Fucking lesbian looking faggot face.

[| B |rian]

I'd say I'm a Diest but I think God is some kind of unifying force in the universe that will never be fully explained

[_doesitmatter_]

i watched a guy get shot seven times the other night outside of a club........god does not exist.

[TRSskatr7]

whooo the fuck cares

[Charlie Hustles]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

Again, the universe works without that pressumption. I think it's a rather egotistical concept that only a species as arrogant us would come up with. We're pattern seeking primates, and just because we see everything as being full of majesty and wonder, it doesn’t mean it actually is. I think you’re using the term God as an interchangeable term for something else. I really think we need to define our terms in this thread or we’re going to have wires crossed all over the place.

Ya, that's why I put the word in quotation marks. I did not mean "God" as in Jesus H. Christ or something of the like. I meant "God" as in a higher power/something worth believing in and learning from.

[cool guy]

I AM YOUR GODS

[cool guy]

parentheses.
()

[K]

Jesus H. Christ .


what does the H stand for??? :lol:



hector?
heraldo?
harold?
henry?
harry?

anyone got any idea?

[Charlie Hustles]

FUCKING A, I HAVE FAILED.

Quotation marks.

:oops:

[Charlie Hustles]

Jesus H. Christ .


what does the H stand for??? :lol:



hector?
heraldo?
harold?
henry?
harry?

anyone got any idea?

HERB.

[cool guy]

I CAUGHT YOUR ONLY MISTAKE

[formerly galenaskater]

i watched a guy get shot seven times the other night outside of a club........god does not exist.

please elaborate. your stories tend to be pretty OSM as if you didn't already know that

[kfc_qbn]

just curious

if you don't know and are afraid that if you say no and there is a god you will be punished then just say yes... only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no....if that makes any sense at all


I do believe in God but have to say that no one has ever worded the question right the way you just did and asking someone to face that dilemma is important.

[Krantz]

parentheses.
()

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[| B |rian]

Why would anyone fear God anyway? "It" seems like a huge piece of shit if you believe that "it" still plays a part in the universe today

[Krantz]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

Again, the universe works without that pressumption. I think it's a rather egotistical concept that only a species as arrogant us would come up with. We're pattern seeking primates, and just because we see everything as being full of majesty and wonder, it doesn’t mean it actually is. I think you’re using the term God as an interchangeable term for something else. I really think we need to define our terms in this thread or we’re going to have wires crossed all over the place.

Ya, that's why I put the word in quotation marks. I did not mean "God" as in Jesus H. Christ or something of the like. I meant "God" as in a higher power/something worth believing in and learning from.

And how might one acquire this belief or learn from him?

I'm still not 100% on your definition. Seems to me like some pie in the sky gibberish. Here, why don't you choose one...

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

[Charlie Hustles]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

Again, the universe works without that pressumption. I think it's a rather egotistical concept that only a species as arrogant us would come up with. We're pattern seeking primates, and just because we see everything as being full of majesty and wonder, it doesn’t mean it actually is. I think you’re using the term God as an interchangeable term for something else. I really think we need to define our terms in this thread or we’re going to have wires crossed all over the place.

Ya, that's why I put the word in quotation marks. I did not mean "God" as in Jesus H. Christ or something of the like. I meant "God" as in a higher power/something worth believing in and learning from.

And how might one acquire this belief or learn from him?

I'm still not 100% on your definition. Seems to me like some pie in the sky gibberish. Here, why don't you choose one...

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

None of the above? I am not Buddhist, but this is kind of the idea that I am trying to convey:

Zen asserts, as do other schools in Mahayana Buddhism, that all sentient beings have Buddha-nature, the universal nature of inherent wisdom (Sanskrit prajna) and virtue, and emphasizes that Buddha-nature is nothing other than the nature of the mind itself. The aim of Zen practice is to discover this Buddha-nature within each person, through meditation and mindfulness of daily experiences. Zen practitioners believe that this provides new perspectives and insights on existence, which ultimately lead to enlightenment.

In distinction to many other Buddhist sects, Zen de-emphasizes reliance on religious texts and verbal discourse on metaphysical questions. Zen holds that these things lead the practitioner to seek external answers, rather than searching within themselves for the direct intuitive apperception of Buddha-nature. This search within goes under various terms such as “introspection,” “a backward step,” “turning-about,” or “turning the eye inward.”

Now sprinkle in some Satanism:

LaVeyan Satanism is a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies".

And back all that up with some Anarcho-Primitivist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism) ideas, and that is still not quite what I am trying to say but close enough.

[andrew nemo]

god as in some form of higher power that was somehow responsible for the creation of the universe.

yes

but

believe in organized religions that have been set up to exploit people (and give some sort of hope for many people but always at a price)

NO NO NO

[Krantz]

So what are your opinions on "God" existing within ourselves and nature?

Again, the universe works without that pressumption. I think it's a rather egotistical concept that only a species as arrogant us would come up with. We're pattern seeking primates, and just because we see everything as being full of majesty and wonder, it doesn’t mean it actually is. I think you’re using the term God as an interchangeable term for something else. I really think we need to define our terms in this thread or we’re going to have wires crossed all over the place.

Ya, that's why I put the word in quotation marks. I did not mean "God" as in Jesus H. Christ or something of the like. I meant "God" as in a higher power/something worth believing in and learning from.

And how might one acquire this belief or learn from him?

I'm still not 100% on your definition. Seems to me like some pie in the sky gibberish. Here, why don't you choose one...

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

None of the above? I am not Buddhist, but this is kind of the idea that I am trying to convey:

Zen asserts, as do other schools in Mahayana Buddhism, that all sentient beings have Buddha-nature, the universal nature of inherent wisdom (Sanskrit prajna) and virtue, and emphasizes that Buddha-nature is nothing other than the nature of the mind itself. The aim of Zen practice is to discover this Buddha-nature within each person, through meditation and mindfulness of daily experiences. Zen practitioners believe that this provides new perspectives and insights on existence, which ultimately lead to enlightenment.

In distinction to many other Buddhist sects, Zen de-emphasizes reliance on religious texts and verbal discourse on metaphysical questions. Zen holds that these things lead the practitioner to seek external answers, rather than searching within themselves for the direct intuitive apperception of Buddha-nature. This search within goes under various terms such as “introspection,” “a backward step,” “turning-about,” or “turning the eye inward.”

Now sprinkle in some Satanism:

LaVeyan Satanism is a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies".

And back all that up with some Anarcho-Primitivist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism) ideas, and that is still not quite what I am trying to say but close enough.

So your religion is pasticho-gobledegookism?

[Charlie Hustles]

No . . . I am God (and so is nature, but we are one). Do you get it now?

[Krantz]

No . . . I am God (and so is nature, but we are one). Do you get it now?

Yes, you're an egomaniacal moron.

[jakeness13]

nooooooooo


it kind of makes me feel good to know that a lot more people than i thought didnt beleive

[Charlie Hustles]

You don't get it. You can be too, and all the little animals already are, and the herb that I smoke is, and so on . . .

[BMV]

I wish so badly that I could, but I just don't.

Which makes thinking about dying a lot more depressing.

[Krantz]

You don't get it. You can be too, and all the little animals already are, and the herb that I smoke is, and so on . . .


Charlie I am trying to get what you're saying, and I think I do. I just think that your argument would make a lot more sense if you didn't use the term God at all.

[Mikey Peluso]

No.

[BMV]

No . . . I am God (and so is nature, but we are one). Do you get it now?

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7857/1226621833105gi1.png

[Charlie Hustles]

Perhaps, but I am trying to make a point by using it. Read between the lines, my damy.

[ZiM108]

NO

[kdurrty]

Fuck No.

[Grand Galactic Inquisitor]

You don't get it. You can be too, and all the little animals already are, and the herb that I smoke is, and so on . . .

You should read the graphic novel collection Promethea by Alan Moore.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

You don't get it. You can be too, and all the little animals already are, and the herb that I smoke is, and so on . . .


Charlie I am trying to get what you're saying, and I think I do.

do some shrooms and think about it. then you'll get what he is saying.

[Charlie Hustles]

Yo, seriously, mad hallucinogens over a period of years will help you gain some perspective.

[BMV]

Yo, seriously, mad hallucinogens over a period of years will help you turn into a raisincake.

[t0m fIsChEr]

Since the universe is expanding if we go back in time, it would be contracting, eventually to a single point in time or particle of matter or w/e you wanna call it; hence explaining the big bang theory.

Since we are all matter within that universe that was once a single point, WE ARE ALL ONE.

So yes I do believe in god as nature and that everything and anything in our universe is one.

NOT in the sense of one totalitarian supreme being that i must fear for him to love me.

[chriscunningham]

Yes, I do.

[Krantz]

Anybody who's been on the board long enough knows I've done hallucinogens a lot in my time. I've felt some wonderful things and realized a lot about the universe. None of these feelings are in conjuction with any notion of "God". Charlie, I have a feeling if you just changed your terminology I could agree with you.

[t1m_t3b0w]

obviously

[Grand Galactic Inquisitor]

I worship Ninkasi.

"Borne of the flowing water,
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,
Borne of the flowing water,
Tenderly cared for by the Ninhursag,

Having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished its great walls for you,
Ninkasi, having founded your town by the sacred lake,
She finished it's walls for you,

Your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake.
Ninkasi, your father is Enki, Lord Nidimmud,
Your mother is Ninti, the queen of the sacred lake.

You are the one who handles the dough [and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with sweet aromatics,
Ninkasi, you are the one who handles the dough [and] with a big shovel,
Mixing in a pit, the bappir with [date] - honey,

You are the one who bakes the bappir in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,
Ninkasi, you are the one who bakes the bappir in the big oven,
Puts in order the piles of hulled grains,

You are the one who waters the malt set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates,
Ninkasi, you are the one who waters the malt set on the ground,
The noble dogs keep away even the potentates,

You are the one who soaks the malt in a jar,
The waves rise, the waves fall.
Ninkasi, you are the one who soaks the malt in a jar,
The waves rise, the waves fall.

You are the one who spreads the cooked mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes,
Ninkasi, you are the one who spreads the cooked mash on large reed mats,
Coolness overcomes,

You are the one who holds with both hands the great sweet wort,
Brewing [it] with honey [and] wine
(You the sweet wort to the vessel)
Ninkasi, (...)(You the sweet wort to the vessel)

The filtering vat, which makes a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on a large collector vat.
Ninkasi, the filtering vat, which makes a pleasant sound,
You place appropriately on a large collector vat.

When you pour out the filtered beer of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of Tigris and Euphrates.
Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the filtered beer of the collector vat,
It is [like] the onrush of Tigris and Euphrates. "

[u am snookems]

I believe in VG Roots.

[u am snookems]

I forgot about the VGRoots block LOL

[Mudhut Jollyrancher]

vgrootz

[SnOwHIO]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

You mixed everything up and i need to clarify this so I might get into level 8 of heaven: I believe in some form of higher power that we can't understand, but i don't think that i would be punished in any way for saying No in this poll, so i voted no.

Now go to this site: http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/
if you have any real balls

[nyrolla420]

I believe the god of the physical universe aka the god of the bible is a bloodthirsty, war mongering and enslaving demon who demands virgin sacrafices and genocides.

[u am snookems]

I practice Bokononism, myself.

[shortround_wsm]

I don't believe in God, but I do believe in the cold, even though that doesn't exist either. We assign words to all kinds of abstract things that make no sense. The linguistic sign is arbitrary, and the verb 'to be' pushes it a little. Our brains were built to survive, understanding this kinda thing is some next level ninja warrior type shit.

[someguy]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.

[Charlie Hustles]

Hate is such a harsh word.

[MANMADE]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.Aren't you just better then everyone else!

You must have all the answers all-mighty pretentious one! Please! Elaborate!

[Guest!mator]

I wish so badly that I could, but I just don't.

Which makes thinking about dying a lot more depressing.


You know what it really means...

With that view on life, it's ever important to be productive. We really are lucky to be alive right now. I've come to the realization that I won't be afraid of death or...sad i guess when i die because I will have accomplished everything that i could have, and so when i look back i couldn't have done more.

It motivates me to become a better and more productive person.

In the 1930's a giant asteroid nailed the Siberian tundra. Because it was during the rule of the communist, no expedition was allowed to go search the destruction. Years and years later an expedition finally made it out to view the destruction....and it was a crater that was 800 square miles wide.... what if that had hit...say NYC

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/impact-earth-avoiding-another-asteroid-858189.html

what i'm really trying to say is, I may die tomorrow, i may die tonight, but atleast i didnt die yesterday. so cheer up, and do something awesome with your life because it's all you've got.

[SnOwHIO]

I wish so badly that I could, but I just don't.

Which makes thinking about dying a lot more depressing.


You know what it really means...

With that view on life, it's ever important to be productive. We really are lucky to be alive right now. I've come to the realization that I won't be afraid of death or...sad i guess when i die because I will have accomplished everything that i could have, and so when i look back i couldn't have done more.

It motivates me to become a better and more productive person.

In the 1930's a giant asteroid nailed the Siberian tundra. Because it was during the rule of the communist, no expedition was allowed to go search the destruction. Years and years later an expedition finally made it out to view the destruction....and it was a crater that was 800 square miles wide.... what if that had hit...say NYC

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/impact-earth-avoiding-another-asteroid-858189.html

what i'm really trying to say is, I may die tomorrow, i may die tonight, but atleast i didnt die yesterday. so cheer up, and do something awesome with your life because it's all you've got.

Do you think it's possible that we have more than just one life?

[Guest!mator]

Do you think it's possible that we have more than just one life?

well, seeing that we're just a massive and complex collection of chemicals, say our own "consciousness" of who or what we are is from the direct contact of chemical stimuli... every chemical inside of you is in a complex and ridiculous constant regulation of itself...i dont want to get off topic but this is why it's so important to have a healthy diet because your body can't regulate itself by itself, i mean there are important chemicals that your body needs that it can't make on its own(vitamins are vital cofactors to enzymatic reactions, meaning without these vitamins you will generate a disease)


what i'm trying to say is that even though the materials that make up our body will be recycled, i see no reason why that exact combination may arise again, or even further => if they did we wouldnt have any memory of the past life at all....memory is just some sort of stored chemical reaction(which literally blows my mind) and i can't explain how that works.

This may offend some people, if they're not already offended, but what makes us so great that we deserve another life? do tigers get another life? did we reach elite status because we can communicate using language? We all evolved from the same ancestor cell/ precursor chemicals and we're the product of 4 billion years of evolution/ chemical reactions...

it's like a lion tamer is killed by his lion and then the lion is put down because it's a great tragedy. people in this society hold a person's life more dear than the lion even though we're all made of the same chemicals that make up the universe. who's to judge who's life is more important, or less important... in the grand scheme of things this is why we have adopted a God. we can't accept that we're on the same level as every other living thing and we shouldn't get special treatment just because we can talk about it.

**this is like saying you believe in heaven, but not in a dog heaven too.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

I dont believe in the christian idea of god.

Theres probably some type of higher being who started the ball rolling.

All in all I think Earth, the universe is a gian science experiment and we shouldnt be expecting our creator to help us all the time, nor think it will punish is.

[Amber]

Yes

[Grasshoppa]

fuck no

[oldskizzle]

yup

[tim_adams]

I do not.

[<<Luke Belding>&]

I do.

[Johnone1]

FUCK YES I DO.more of a higher power though. i have no idea if its male,female or what.its just a higher power

[pihb]

I would say I do. But I don't pray, attend church any of that jazz. He just sits the sidelines. for as much shit as there is going on he could make it all better but he doesnt. He just "tests" everyone. So thats thats

[Krantz]

FUCK YES I DO.more of a higher power though. i have no idea if its male,female or what.its just a higher power

:lol:

[Timothy James Kelly]

Absolutely not

[B-Gault]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

I didnt read anything else but only got this and I had to reply ha.

Saying you are agnostic does not mean that you want to believe. How can you assume everyones psychological thoughts for the people who call themselves agnostic? You cant.

And at the end of the day an agnostic would not say that they definitely dont believe, because that would not be agnostic.

Agnostic's dont say that there isnt a god because there is no proof. Im sure there are many many people who believe in god without proof. Thats called faith. Gotta have faith? Well agnostics dont. They dont claim that there isnt a god because they simply believe in a complete 50/50 chance.

And if we are getting technical here god='s omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

What words like good and divine simplicity mean's is not the same for everyone.

[manley]

only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

I didnt read anything else but only got this and I had to reply ha.

Saying you are agnostic does not mean that you want to believe. How can you assume everyones psychological thoughts for the people who call themselves agnostic? You cant.

And at the end of the day an agnostic would not say that they definitely dont believe, because that would not be agnostic.

Agnostic's dont say that there isnt a god because there is no proof. Im sure there are many many people who believe in god without proof. Thats called faith. Gotta have faith? Well agnostics dont. They dont claim that there isnt a god because they simply believe in a complete 50/50 chance.

And if we are getting technical here god='s omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

What words like good and divine simplicity mean's is not the same for everyone.

yeah, agnostic is kind of a tricky grey area that everyone argues about. I think it should best be defined as- not believing in god-

as apposed to atheists who- believe there is no god

and believers who, you guessed it -believe there is a God.


I consider myself an agnostic. I don't believe in God. I would venture so far as to say that I don't think there is a God. but I would not say that I BELIEVE there is no God. There could be a god. I have no interest in searching for him any longer. And I certainly don't WANT to believe in god (although there was a time when that was true, at which point I also considered myself an agnostic). I guess at this point I'm just indifferent to the idea of god. I guess its cool of you dig Him, but I get along just fine on my own.

[chimbaktu]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.


I hadn't seen an asininely pretentious post from you in a long term, i'd started to worry. :shock:

[u am snookems]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.


I hadn't seen an asininely pretentious post from you in a long term, i'd started to worry. :shock:
lulz

[leiftheviking | phc]

No.

[Charlie Hustles]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.


I hadn't seen an asininely pretentious post from you in a long term, i'd started to worry. :shock:

For real, dude needs to be slapped for all that hating.

[Jason P.]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

[manley]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

[chimbaktu]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

[Charlie Hustles]

Well put.

[manley]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

If the quick, easy and dirty (I'm not sure what you mean by this) answer is what you are looking for, then I guess you found it.

[chimbaktu]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

If the quick, easy and dirty (I'm not sure what you mean by this) answer is what you are looking for, then I guess you found it.

well, you said that it was a minor focus for your undergrad, so i didn't want to belittle 4 years of schooling by summing up a complex area of discussion in 3 short sentences.


so i went ahead and did it anyways.

[manley]

well played.

[rev. the mike]

Yes.

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/Mike_Ditka.jpg

[Kent]

HEY GAIS, YOU SHOULD WATCH ZEITGEIST!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

[im_like_fergus_yeah!]

no i don't believe in god personally i think science has got the answer. evolution did happen!!! and the earth is not 4000 years old it's fucking well old, let people use condoms as it does stop aids and stop bullying gay people. i think religion in my opinion is just the opposite to rational thought. and considering religion particularly the abrahamic ones seek to impose it's moral codes on society the burden of proof lies on them but nothing has come of that. it annoys me to that they think people who don't believe are morally void. i know it's hard to accept but everything seems to be one massive existencial joke. so lets kick it and stop worrying about religion and shit. who knows who cares really.

[Krantz]

i think religion in my opinion is just the opposite to rational though.

Indeed, the theocrats proved this themselves when they shut the doors of philosophy, and tried to burn all the evidence of enlightenment and ethics being discussed and reflected on before the birth of Christ.

The ultimate proof for morality before Christianity exists in the theocrats own text. They like to use the good samaritan as an example of morals to be derived from the bible. The ironic thing is that the samaritan couldn't have been a Christian because Jesus was still alive and kicking back then.

Never let them tell you we'd be immoral without them. Religion borrows its morals from humanity, not the other way around.

In a way they're condemning themselves. Because they're saying they'd be raping, pillaging, stealing etc... without the word of God to go by.

Ha-ha, who needs to disprove theism when the theists themselves do a better job than we could.


:wink:
:lol:

[im_like_fergus_yeah!]

i think religion in my opinion is just the opposite to rational thought.

Indeed, the theocrats proved this themselves when they shut the doors of philosophy, and tried to burn all the evidence of enlightenment and ethics being discussed and reflected on before the birth of Christ.

The ultimate proof for morality before Christianity exists in the theocrats own text. They like to use the good samaritan as an example of morals to be derived from the bible. The ironic thing is that the samaritan couldn't have been a Christian because Jesus was still alive and kicking back then.

Never let them tell you we'd be immoral without them. Religion borrows its morals from humanity, not the other way around.

In a way they're condemning themselves. Because they're saying they'd be raping, pillaging, stealing etc... without the word of God to go by.

Ha-ha, who needs to disprove theism when the theists themselves do a better job than we could.


:wink:
:lol:

just correcting spelling!! erm yeah i agree. but im open minded on this issue religion isn't really needed these days i mean you can freeze yourself and soon be able to cheat death so er there.

[BMV]

Yes.

http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/Mike_Ditka.jpg

Who would win....

http://walton.ifas.ufl.edu/images/hurricane-ivan.jpg

[R-MONEY$$$]

been thinking about it and have decided that I do believe in infinite intellengence, intelligent design and as humans a connection with the higher power.

[danchuk]

no i don't believe in god personally i think science has got the answer. evolution did happen!!!

i believe in a "God" and do not doubt evolution.
i don't understand why there is such a hugely popular (and foolish) debate which limits opinion to just one or the other.
science and 'religion' strive for the same things i feel.
if the atom could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'God.'
this is Reason.

too often it is made to seem 'unpopular' or 'crazy' to believe in something beyond our comprehension such as a possible 'God.'--
but think, what does science seek to do?

[Krantz]

no i don't believe in god personally i think science has got the answer. evolution did happen!!!

i believe in a "God" and do not doubt evolution.
i don't understand why there is such a hugely popular (and foolish) debate which limits opinion to just one or the other.
science and 'religion' strive for the same things i feel.
if the atom could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'God.'
this is Reason.

too often it is made to seem 'unpopular' or 'crazy' to believe in something beyond our comprehension such as a possible 'God.'--
but think, what does science seek to do?

So you believe in a deistic God. My quarrel is with theism, and the celestial dictatorship it implies.

[manley]

[quote=im_like_fergus_yeah!]
if God could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'man.'
this is Reason.

[R-MONEY$$$]

here we go :roll:




:lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL I read the thread title and thought about you! We've already had this conversation, so my quabble isn't with you. I was fairly drunk at the time, but I'm pretty sure we kissed and made up. Still waiting for obligatorry make-up butt-secks though.

:shock: :oops: :cry:

Our quarrel was about religion. This is about god. The angry god that wants to have butt secks with you becuase of our quarrel. That is why we havn't had the make up butt-secks, Because god would become jealous of me and probably rape my soul.

[danchuk]

[quote=im_like_fergus_yeah!]
if God could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'man.'
this is Reason.


and what do you speculate created man?

[Krantz]

[quote=im_like_fergus_yeah!]
if God could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'man.'
this is Reason.


and what do you speculate created man?

Space aliens d00d.

http://goodluckwithallthat.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/tom-cruise-couch-400a071907.jpg

[manley]

[quote=im_like_fergus_yeah!]
if God could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'man.'
this is Reason.


and what do you speculate created man?

I'm not in the habit of speculating. I just wanted to point out that to say as a rule that everything must have a cause puts god in a pretty tough place.

[BEEF]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless

[rev. the mike]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless

you also get the sort of people who believe in "micro-evolution" that occurs after the creation 6,000 or whatever years ago, but they disbelieve evidence of evolution prior to that.

[manley]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless

I don't know what most atheists do. It's very hard to make generalizations about a group of people who lack a common central belief system.

[Krantz]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless


I'm going to play devils advocate here. I do realize that in recent history the church has had to concede to evolution being the accepted theory of how humans came to be. That doesn't change the fact that the Bible states otherwise in Genesis. If one doesn't follow the teachings of the "Holy Book", then how can one proclaim himself to be a "Christian"? Is all I'm saying...

I mean, the catholic church has also renounced the existence of limbo (The place where all the unabaptized children go), but it doesn't make it any less tormentuous for the poor Catholic mothers and fathers who have genuinely believed that their unabaptized babies are sent to a horrible place between here and hell, for eternity.

[danchuk]

I'm not in the habit of speculating. I just wanted to point out that to say as a rule that everything must have a cause puts god in a pretty tough place.

sure, to our simple comprehension.
but the area of thought i wanted to push is the origin of 'things,'
which is, at its core, a scientific discussion,
which also implies the inevitable existence of a so-called 'God,'
which is a conversation that atheists always seem to be shy away from.

man--->evolution--->big bang theory--->the universe--->the atom---> (?)
...or what have you...

the un-answerable: what is at the end of this chain?--this is what interests me.
and i also think it is considerable logic for the whole 'God-discussion.'
any thoughts?

[manley]

I'm not in the habit of speculating. I just wanted to point out that to say as a rule that everything must have a cause puts god in a pretty tough place.

sure, to our simple comprehension.
but the area of thought i wanted to push is the origin of 'things,'
which is, at its core, a scientific discussion,
which also implies the inevitable existence of a so-called 'God,'
which is a conversation that atheists always seem to be shy away from.

man--->evolution--->big bang theory--->the universe--->the atom---> (?)
...or what have you...

the un-answerable: what is at the end of this chain?--this is what interests me.
and i also think it is considerable logic for the whole 'God-discussion.'
any thoughts?

I think you've got that chain wrong. there are no atoms pre-big bang. and where in that lies the inevitable existence of God?

This reminds me of looking over the horizon, not knowing what is there and making conclusions about the inevitable edge of our flat earth.

[Krantz]

I'm not in the habit of speculating. I just wanted to point out that to say as a rule that everything must have a cause puts god in a pretty tough place.

sure, to our simple comprehension.
but the area of thought i wanted to push is the origin of 'things,'
which is, at its core, a scientific discussion,
which also implies the inevitable existence of a so-called 'God,'
which is a conversation that atheists always seem to be shy away from.

man--->evolution--->big bang theory--->the universe--->the atom---> (?)
...or what have you...

the un-answerable: what is at the end of this chain?--this is what interests me.
and i also think it is considerable logic for the whole 'God-discussion.'
any thoughts?





only say no if you dont fear a god would be dissapointed with you saying no.l

:? can't fear something that isn't there.


:arrow:

yea, but if you were agnostic, aka you weren't sure whether there was a god or not, that just means you WANT to believe, but there isn't any acceptable proof but in the end of the day saying definitively that you dont believe would be blasphemy of some sort.

god= intelligent designer or anything that is excluded from normal laws of nature that somehow set everything up

I think you're mistaking the term God for something else. If you follow the intelligent design principle then you're left with regression. I think Bertrand Russell said it better than I ever could...

"If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu’s view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, “How about the tortoise?” the Indian said, “Suppose we change the subject.” "

[danchuk]

I think you've got that chain wrong. there are no atoms pre-big bang. and where in that lies the inevitable existence of God?

This reminds me of looking over the horizon, not knowing what is there and making conclusions about the inevitable edge of our flat earth.

it "lies" not; i wrote "implies."
but let's get away from the nitty-gritty of this chain-game hogwash.
what matters to the discussion is how every-Thing became to be.

the "inevitable existence" behind this logic is that any ol' fashioned atheist can argue that there is no 'creator' up until a certain point in thought--at which time they must concede.

to say it this way: the modern, popular standing theory for creation of the universe--to my understanding--seems to be big-bang.
but i then have to ask, if this is the case, what created big-bang?

i understand if one does not want to affiliate with a specific religion--i'm one of these people;
but to admit that there must be a 'Something,' a 'God' to have begun all matter should not completely turn atheists away from this idea.

this is not religious faith, it is scientific thought.
does this spark any sense at all to any atheists?

[chimbaktu]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless

i think most layman or maybe it's just YOU don't realize that there is a big difference between micro evolution and macro evolution. the former is an undeniable fact of occurrence. the latter is a theory up for debate and modification, although it is rather well developed and supported.

abiogenesis and macro evolution are the areas of science that creationist religions cannot come to terms with.


P.S. you probably think you're being informative when you post, but in reality it's just making you look clueless.

[Krantz]

I think you've got that chain wrong. there are no atoms pre-big bang. and where in that lies the inevitable existence of God?

This reminds me of looking over the horizon, not knowing what is there and making conclusions about the inevitable edge of our flat earth.

it "lies" not; i wrote "implies."
but let's get away from the nitty-gritty of this chain-game hogwash.
what matters to the discussion is how every-Thing became to be.

the "inevitable existence" behind this logic is that any ol' fashioned atheist can argue that there is no 'creator' up until a certain point in thought--at which time they must concede.

to say it this way: the modern, popular standing theory for creation of the universe--to my understanding--seems to be big-bang.
but i then have to ask, if this is the case, what created big-bang?

i understand if one does not want to affiliate with a specific religion--i'm one of these people;
but to admit that there must be a 'Something,' a 'God' to have begun all matter should not completely turn atheists away from this idea.

this is not religious faith, it is scientific thought.
does this spark any sense at all to any atheists?

Are you dodging my posts, or do you just have me on ignore or something?

[remzroller24]

after seeing zeigist no

[manley]

I think you've got that chain wrong. there are no atoms pre-big bang. and where in that lies the inevitable existence of God?

This reminds me of looking over the horizon, not knowing what is there and making conclusions about the inevitable edge of our flat earth.

it "lies" not; i wrote "implies."
but let's get away from the nitty-gritty of this chain-game hogwash.
what matters to the discussion is how every-Thing became to be.

the "inevitable existence" behind this logic is that any ol' fashioned atheist can argue that there is no 'creator' up until a certain point in thought--at which time they must concede.

to say it this way: the modern, popular standing theory for creation of the universe--to my understanding--seems to be big-bang.
but i then have to ask, if this is the case, what created big-bang?

i understand if one does not want to affiliate with a specific religion--i'm one of these people;
but to admit that there must be a 'Something,' a 'God' to have begun all matter should not completely turn atheists away from this idea.

this is not religious faith, it is scientific thought.
does this spark any sense at all to any atheists?

Why must an atheist concede? why must there be a creator? and if there must be a creator, must the creator be created? Many people on this post are making this point to you, and YOU are the one ignoring the logic.

[Krantz]

Thanks manley, I've just given him Russel's dilemma word for word, twice, and he's not answering it.

[manley]

By "many people", I was referring to you and myself. maybe I exaggerated. Although, lets go ahead and include Bertrand Russell on that list.

[danchuk]

you, and YOU

eesh! o boy o boy o boy!
sooooo...
whatch-y'all think about this here Soul we got livin' under all this flesh and bone?

[Delusional Daniel]

fuck off WoF faggot lesbian face, nobody fucking asked for ur GAY opinion, motherfucker

[nevernotrolling]

block the word god and change it to haffey.

[gen2roller]

do you believe in haffey?

[Krantz]

I take it, Danchuk, that you have no rebuttal.

[im_like_fergus_yeah!]

[quote=im_like_fergus_yeah!]
if God could not create itself, there has to be something to have created it.
and whatever this 'something' is, is 'man.'
this is Reason.


who fucked with what i said??? i think alot of people are cherry picking when regarding evolution and the rest none that shit is said in the bible. it confuses the fuck out of me.i think that the church and the state should be seperated and that religion should play no part in politics and the morality of general society.

[jonathan]

I take it, Danchuk, that you have no rebuttal.


haha, you said butt

[Krantz]

I take it, Danchuk, that you have no rebuttal.


haha, you said butt

Made you say butt!

Twas part of my plan all along!

Used a bit of theist rhetoric there.

:lol:

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless


I'm going to play devils advocate here. I do realize that in recent history the church has had to concede to evolution being the accepted theory of how humans came to be. That doesn't change the fact that the Bible states otherwise in Genesis. If one doesn't follow the teachings of the "Holy Book", then how can one proclaim himself to be a "Christian"? Is all I'm saying...



both of the points you raised are the exact reason why religion is a bunch of horseshit.

the bible is the word of god because god spoke through the writers. the word of god is infallible which means the creation story must be true. clearly it isn't and the church's willingness to change views everytime science proves them wrong just further invalidates anything they say.

[danchuk]

I take it, Danchuk, that you have no rebuttal.

i apologize for not sitting in front of a computer all day.
rebutt-uhl to what?--
didn't realize i was taking part in a debate.
butt,
i was trying to stir some new thought into this one-sided discussion.

[Krantz]

I take it, Danchuk, that you have no rebuttal.

i apologize for not sitting in front of a computer all day.
rebutt-uhl to what?--
didn't realize i was taking part in a debate.
butt,
i was trying to stir some new thought into this one-sided discussion.

This conversation is one-sided, sir, because you refuse to comment on my points.

You aren't obligated to comment at all but I'm forced to quabble with you when you accuse the atheists of this board of shying away from ideas, when you're basically doing it yourself.

[Krantz]

i think most atheists or maybe its just the average be-maggers don't realize that the majority of religions accept evolution as fact. including most christian religions... its only a few small sects that think evolution isn't reality and the earth is 4,000 years old- and most atheists like to slap this belief onto every religion to help their argument, when in reality its just making them look clueless


I'm going to play devils advocate here. I do realize that in recent history the church has had to concede to evolution being the accepted theory of how humans came to be. That doesn't change the fact that the Bible states otherwise in Genesis. If one doesn't follow the teachings of the "Holy Book", then how can one proclaim himself to be a "Christian"? Is all I'm saying...



both of the points you raised are the exact reason why religion is a bunch of horseshit.

the bible is the word of god because god spoke through the writers. the word of god is infallible which means the creation story must be true. clearly it isn't and the church's willingness to change views everytime science proves them wrong just further invalidates anything they say.

Exactly.

Cash, I'd like to move to Chronic City. It sounds...appealing.

[danchuk]

This conversation is one-sided, sir.

i refuse to further respond to a person who cannot correctly spell 'Wolf.'

[Krantz]

This conversation is one-sided, sir.

i refuse to further respond

Thanks for using an Ad Hominem to further illustrate the fact that you have no rebuttal, Danchuk.

By the way, my screen-name is just an abbreviation of my old screen-name. If that's what your cack-handed comment was referring to.

[jonathan]

This conversation is one-sided, sir.

i refuse to further respond to a person who cannot correctly spell 'Wolf.'


eee, bad choice of words.

Don't know, or do I really care what you two were talking about, but in recent pages it apears you dug yourself a hole.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

Cash, I'd like to move to Chronic City. It sounds...appealing.[/color]


well it is a pretty sweet place

[danchuk]

yo wolf, what do you even want me to rebuttal?

[Krantz]

yo wolf, what do you even want me to rebuttal?

Pick one, I've laid out a few in this thread.

I don't want to come off to people like I think my opinion should be specially valued, I just think that if you drop your hand in a debate with obscure, obtuse points and don't engage with anyone then you're being quite solipsistic, and a little rude.

[danchuk]

eesh, wouldn't want to be rude to the big bad wolf.
c'mon. i've laid out a few of my own already.
and obscure? obtuse?--my points are neither of the two, young starry!

[jonathan]

yo wolf, what do you even want me to rebuttal?

Pick one, I've laid out a few in this thread.

I don't want to come off to people like I think my opinion should be specially valued, I just think that if you drop your hand in a debate with obscure, obtuse points and don't engage with anyone then you're being quite solipsistic, and a little rude.

Haha. You're a respectable d00d.

I have a feeling our views about the our origins, or endings (god, no god whatever) differ, but I actually wouldn't mind debating or even talking about our seperate views because you wouldn't revert to a childish mode and scream "You stupid 4 thinking god is real".

Though i have no useful opinion in this thread because I couldn't read past the first few pages.

I'm going to keep that in mind.

What was your old screen name? Watermellons on fire?

[Charlie Hustles]

Stop sounding so fucking pretentious, WoF.

[jonathan]

Stop sounding so fucking pretentious, WoF.

What? Wof seems like the only level head in this whole debate. Granted he does like using bigger words. But I don't see it as being pretentious.

[Charlie Hustles]

It is pretentious when the majority of your audience does not understand the words that you are using.

[Krantz]

yo wolf, what do you even want me to rebuttal?

Pick one, I've laid out a few in this thread.

I don't want to come off to people like I think my opinion should be specially valued, I just think that if you drop your hand in a debate with obscure, obtuse points and don't engage with anyone then you're being quite solipsistic, and a little rude.

Haha. You're a respectable d00d.

I have a feeling our views about the our origins, or endings (god, no god whatever) differ, but I actually wouldn't mind debating or even talking about our seperate views because you wouldn't revert to a childish mode and scream "You stupid 4 thinking god is real".

Though i have no useful opinion in this thread because I couldn't read past the first few pages.

I'm going to keep that in mind.

What was your old screen name? Watermellons on fire?

Hah, thanks man. My previous screen-name was Wall_of_Fear. I do try to be respectful when discussing things like this with people, because if there's a shred of hostility then neither party would consider changing their view-point and the whole exercise would be meaningless.

Though I do consider myself to be firmly anti-theist I am a little on the fence with regards to deism. There are strong cases on both sides, and as long as we dispose of theocracy then my belief system is definitely open to changing. I'll be the first to admit that too if it happens.

What are your views?

I'm sorry Charlie, I'm just writing. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you just put me on ignore.

On a serious note though, I've thought a little about the way you think, or at least try to, and have come to the conclusion that I do respect you. Not that that should mean anything to you.

<3

[Charlie Hustles]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

[Delusional Daniel]

WoF is a huge faggot that needs to get beaten up for good.

[Amber]

WoF is a huge faggot that needs to get beaten up for good.
Do you like anyone on here?

[Delusional Daniel]

I like you because you're a virgin.

[BMV]

I like you because you're a virgin.


BURN

[Krantz]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

Well, up until your last comment I really had no idea that people don't understand what I'm saying. Though there are lamen on this board, I do think a lot of it is made up of intelligent, sensitive individuals who can put folly aside when it's appropriate.

This might sound a ghey but a good heart in the wrong place is still a good heart I guess.

[Delusional Daniel]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

Well, up until your last comment I really had no idea that people don't understand what I'm saying. Though there are lamen on this board, I do think a lot of it is made up of intelligent, sensitive individuals who can put folly aside when it's appropriate.

This might sound a ghey but a good heart in the wrong place is still a good heart I guess.


yes dude, kill yourself.

[chimbaktu]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

perhaps it sounds condescending to an unlearned person like danchuk who in lieu of having any actual intelligent thoughts, tries to drop a flamebait reply and then act like an idiot when somebody refutes him.

I don't see negativity in using intelligent language to convey specific ideas to someone who celebrates their own ignorance. If you feel that using polysyllable words is condescending, then perhaps you should invest in one of these:

http://www3.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/promo/dictionary.jpg

[Krantz]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

perhaps it sounds condescending to an unlearned person like danchuk who in lieu of having any actual intelligent thoughts, tries to drop a flamebait reply and then act like an idiot when somebody refutes him.

I don't see negativity in using intelligent language to convey specific ideas to someone who celebrates their own ignorance. If you feel that using polysyllable words is condescending, then perhaps you should invest in one of these:

http://www3.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/promo/dictionary.jpg

HOLY SHIT!

http://www.xbox3sixty.co.uk/e107_images/newspost_images/pwned.jpg

[danchuk]

Haha, I don't care, I know what you are saying (though, I'm not going to lie, I had to look a word up), but I know that when someone tries to prove a point and people don't understand what they are saying, they just end up coming off as condescending.



And, thanks, but why?

perhaps it sounds condescending to an unlearned person like danchuk who in lieu of having any actual intelligent thoughts, tries to drop a flamebait reply and then act like an idiot when somebody refutes him.

I don't see negativity in using intelligent language to convey specific ideas to someone who celebrates their own ignorance. If you feel that using polysyllable words is condescending, then perhaps you should invest in one of these:

http://www3.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/promo/dictionary.jpg

eesh! o no!

but wait, am i actually not "intelligent or learned" or just "acting like an idiot?"

[Guest!mator]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

[Guest!mator]

when someone says "god spoke to me in a dream", all i can think is "i had a dream that god spoke to me"


by the way, i'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is right... i want people to read my opinion and see if it makes any sense or if they can relate, and i also want people not to be afraid to ask the tough questions that religion can't answer but science can.

[someguy]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.


I hadn't seen an asininely pretentious post from you in a long term, i'd started to worry. :shock:

haha, I don't think I have seen you post at all in a long time, so I must have thought I was now safe to say asshole shit in semi-intellectual posts.

But chim, tell me, do you or do you not hate agnostics also?

And Hustles, don't get all peace-hippy on me about the use of the word hate, I just read 5 long ass stories about you beating the living shit out of various groups of skateboards for tenuous reasons.

[Turnip Head]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/Emiger/Doc.jpg

[chimbaktu]

No, but I hate all other atheists. All any of you ever do is spew the same flawed bullshit arguments that everyone else spews, quite often using the exact same words, in a failing attempt to pass yourselves off as "freethinkers."

But I hate agnostics so much more.


I hadn't seen an asininely pretentious post from you in a long term, i'd started to worry. :shock:

haha, I don't think I have seen you post at all in a long time, so I must have thought I was now safe to say asshole shit in semi-intellectual posts.

But chim, tell me, do you or do you not hate agnostics also?

And Hustles, don't get all peace-hippy on me about the use of the word hate, I just read 5 long ass stories about you beating the living shit out of various groups of skateboards for tenuous reasons.

<3

i don't hate agnostics. their perspective is one of apathy; they generally don't care enough to really analyze the idea of supreme beings. which who an blame them? it is an exercise in existential futility. so they say: "religions are pretty stupid, but if there is a god, then cool. whatever."

now an agnostic who vehemently defends their point of view would be pretty annoying.

[howie son]

I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

[mbrols]

I do.

Shahiem, what up bro. Long time. PLUS, GOOD ANSWER. LOL.

This thread indeed has potential.

[mbrols]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....

[chimbaktu]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

[R-MONEY$$$]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

[chimbaktu]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.

[stefan andreev]

We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Many lenses, one self.

Namaste

[chimbaktu]

We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Many lenses, one self.

Namaste


colloquial hello in hindi? interested in seeing where you're going with this.

[R-MONEY$$$]

No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

[chimbaktu]

No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

It doesn't take faith to get behind the wheel, it takes a matter of convenience, practicality, and limited options. You can die from a plethora of things before you even wake up in the morning. it doesn't take faith to wake up, it takes a circadian rhythm. accepting the chance of death doesn't necessitate faith, it merely takes the acceptance of natural processes.

[stefan andreev]

We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Many lenses, one self.

Namaste


colloquial hello in hindi? interested in seeing where you're going with this.

It can and is used for "hello". But used in this context, It means more like "I honor that which is both you and I".

[Charlie Hustles]

We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Many lenses, one self.

Namaste

Real talk.

[portrait of a gentleman]

Right now I'm reading Jack Kerouac's "Some of the Dharma". It's essentially his views/notes/thoughts on Buddhism and life I guess, or at least so far it is. I think I have to agree with what I think is his view on God; God isn't one overall supreme being, we're all our own Gods.

[danchuk]

i've never known a person who claimed to be an atheist who was truly happy.
and really, it would contradict the whole basis of atheism,
which is joylessness.

i say this because if all you downers out here would open your full senses to the shit that really is going on concerning Life, Love, the Soul, 'God,' (whatever you want to call it) you would be a believer, and a hell of a lot happier. and yes, everyone can do this.

i don't mean to sound 'above' or 'righteous,' but there is more to life than the five senses, and for whatever reason i and countless others have witnessed this--i just wish it would be more known or accepted.

and hey, i'm good-spirited about this whole discussion.
just like the atheist, i don't know anything more than what i see or experience.
i accept people's views and rationale about things, but please,
understand that it is impossible for some people to listen to you when you say that this shit isn't real, or it's just a dream, or the human psyche.
because it is real. and it has been seen.

imagine that someone is telling you that the Sun doesn't exist, when you can see it shining in the sky and feel it burning your skin...
that is how some people feel when you state there is nothing more to Life than the physical.
dramatic, or crazy, sure, i know.
but i believe every word i write.
and besides i stopped caring about what y'all herbs think about me long ago. :)

[someguy]

I just read Gilead (Marilynn Robinson), which does not really put up any arguments for the existence of God, but the resolve and magnanimity of the narrator are convincing enough an emotional argument. It almost got me, actually, until I was forced by the damned world to return to logic as a means to legitimize knowledge.

Right now I am enthralled by this point: when we ask "Does God exist" we are asking a question that is doomed by inadequate terms. God created all existence, so whatever state of being God is in cannot be called existence. Thus, we obviously run into problems when thinking about god's being, because God is in a way that is outside of (at least the English) language's ability to describe, and possibly in a way that is outside of our ability to understand.

The one thing that keeps me arguing in favor of God's being despite that I don't believe in God is God's sheer incomprehensibility, which shits all over logic and empiricism any day as far as I am concerned.

[someguy]

i've never known a person who claimed to be an atheist who was truly happy.
and really, it would contradict the whole basis of atheism,
which is joylessness.

i say this because if all you downers out here would open your full senses to the shit that really is going on concerning Life, Love, the Soul, 'God,' (whatever you want to call it) you would be a believer, and a hell of a lot happier. and yes, everyone can do this.


I am not happy all the time. Sometimes I am. Regardless of that, though, I challenge your assumption that happiness is more valuable than any other emotion. As far as things go, I am also pretty sure the Christian God would challenge you on that too.

[danchuk]

I am not happy all the time. Sometimes I am. Regardless of that, though, I challenge your assumption that happiness is more valuable than any other emotion. As far as things go, I am also pretty sure the Christian God would challenge you on that too.


i'm not christian. nor do i feel happiness is the most valuable of emotions.
nor do i feel you or anyone should act happy all the time.
but i see your point i guess.

and also, too, as well: someone mentioned it, and i feel it was right on--something about everybody having 'god' in them. i always felt that was a good way of putting it/explaining it, literally and not.

[manley]

i've never known a person who claimed to be an atheist who was truly happy.
and really, it would contradict the whole basis of atheism,
which is joylessness.

i say this because if all you downers out here would open your full senses to the shit that really is going on concerning Life, Love, the Soul, 'God,' (whatever you want to call it) you would be a believer, and a hell of a lot happier. and yes, everyone can do this.

i don't mean to sound 'above' or 'righteous,' but there is more to life than the five senses, and for whatever reason i and countless others have witnessed this--i just wish it would be more known or accepted.

and hey, i'm good-spirited about this whole discussion.
just like the atheist, i don't know anything more than what i see or experience.
i accept people's views and rationale about things, but please,
understand that it is impossible for some people to listen to you when you say that this shit isn't real, or it's just a dream, or the human psyche.
because it is real. and it has been seen.

imagine that someone is telling you that the Sun doesn't exist, when you can see it shining in the sky and feel it burning your skin...
that is how some people feel when you state there is nothing more to Life than the physical.
dramatic, or crazy, sure, i know.
but i believe every word i write.
and besides i stopped caring about what y'all herbs think about me long ago. :)

I'm happy that you stopped caring what people think long ago. That was one of the least intelligent things I have ever read.I don't even know how to tackle this. It would be like teaching epistemology to a 5th grader.

[im_like_fergus_yeah!]

right now you don't need faith to live your life and to do things you. im abit confused how some people on here believe in god. would guys be christian?? but no one has explained how they would define their god. why do you believe in god? are your parents religious?? i take it none of you guys believe in zeus, ra, thor, odin or any other god so my question if you don't think these gods exist why is it that your one supposidly does? where is the difference in believing in thor or the abrahamic god?

[Krantz]

i've never known a person who claimed to be an atheist who was truly happy.
and really, it would contradict the whole basis of atheism,
which is joylessness.

i say this because if all you downers out here would open your full senses to the shit that really is going on concerning Life, Love, the Soul, 'God,' (whatever you want to call it) you would be a believer, and a hell of a lot happier. and yes, everyone can do this.

i don't mean to sound 'above' or 'righteous,' but there is more to life than the five senses, and for whatever reason i and countless others have witnessed this--i just wish it would be more known or accepted.

and hey, i'm good-spirited about this whole discussion.
just like the atheist, i don't know anything more than what i see or experience.
i accept people's views and rationale about things, but please,
understand that it is impossible for some people to listen to you when you say that this shit isn't real, or it's just a dream, or the human psyche.
because it is real. and it has been seen.

imagine that someone is telling you that the Sun doesn't exist, when you can see it shining in the sky and feel it burning your skin...
that is how some people feel when you state there is nothing more to Life than the physical.
dramatic, or crazy, sure, i know.
but i believe every word i write.
and besides i stopped caring about what y'all herbs think about me long ago. :)

Again, all I read was a bunch of white noise, no coherent argument of any kind, and STILL no rebuttals!!!

I'm not even going to argue my case anymore, since you've changed the subject and switched from a relatively productive focus of debate to a pissing contest over who is happier.

All I can say is I am completely content with my life, because I'm not buying into some sadomasochistic notion of redemption, and waiting for a new life to begin.

Thanks for continuing to dig your hole here, that post was golden.

Oh, and Danchuk, that's a false comparison. We can see the sun. Being able to see something helps the credibility along, wouldn't you agree?

:lol:

[u am snookems]

While you guys are arguing metaphysics, the phytoplankton are dying off, deadzones are growing, clearcuts grow ever wider, species are going extinct, cancer rates are sky rocketing, the climate is changing, nuclear weapons are going missing, women are being raped and children are working as slaves and prostitutes, and my post count is ever rising.

LOL

[danchuk]

thanks laddy boy.

and you've each mis-read what i said.
i think.

and yes. seeing does give credibility.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

somebody nail this thread to a cross like the jews did

[Charlie Hustles]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

[R-MONEY$$$]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!

[Guest!mator]

i don't know what i've created

[im_like_fergus_yeah!]

yawn close this thread. space tea pot theory....well like i said if christianity and other updated for the modern times more people would be interested. personally im not gonna put my faith in somthing i cannot see and with followers who have no idea either( people who take the bible literally and those who cherry pick).

[danchuk]

yawn close this thread. space tea pot theory....well like i said if christianity and other updated for the modern times more people would be interested. personally im not gonna put my faith in somthing i cannot see and with followers who have no idea either( people who take the bible literally and those who cherry pick).

just curious to hear what your idea of 'cherry picking' is...
or better, what would someone be 'cherry picking' from?

also: if you could see something, wouldn't putting your faith into its existence be unnecessary?

also, too: i think it's safe to say nobody (not even a 'follower') has an idea as to how things work, but isn't this one thing 'religions,' or any sort of belief-systems, strive to do?--as does science, interestingly enough?

also, too, as well: religions can be updated all they want, but this doesn't change a damn thing. i always envision it this way: if suddenly one day all the various types of temples and holy books and what-have-you were made to disappear somehow, there would still be 'Religion,' or spirituality, as some people like to distinguish it as. religions and dogmatic ways aren't the only way through which a person can worship and believe. while it works for some, i'd argue it's a much 'less better' way. i see religions as both good and bad in that sense.

"Religions are a mask, but what do these masks prove?--the Face."

[Grand Galactic Inquisitor]

Right now I'm reading Jack Kerouac's "Some of the Dharma". It's essentially his views/notes/thoughts on Buddhism and life I guess, or at least so far it is. I think I have to agree with what I think is his view on God; God isn't one overall supreme being, we're all our own Gods.

That is a decent read, but you know later on he reverted to being a right-wing Christian momma's boy, don't you? Allen Ginsberg wasn't welcome at their home because he was a gay Jew, even though they were great friends and quite likely lovers at some point. His daughter who he denied being the father of died at a young age on the street as a prostitute.

I still love some of his works, but after reading a couple of biographies I have realized Kerouac was a giant piece of shit.

[chimbaktu]

yawn close this thread. space tea pot theory....well like i said if christianity and other updated for the modern times more people would be interested. personally im not gonna put my faith in somthing i cannot see and with followers who have no idea either( people who take the bible literally and those who cherry pick).

just curious to hear what your idea of 'cherry picking' is...
or better, what would someone be 'cherry picking' from?


oh let's say somebody taking the idea of creationism out of the bible, or using the bible to say that gays are bad (deuteronomy) , when those passages also state that women are the source of all sin, and that if you've ever worked on a sunday then you should be stoned to death. you know...that kind of cherry picking.



also: if you could see something, wouldn't putting your faith into its existence be unnecessary?

exactly why faith is isn't inherently a positive quality.



also, too: i think it's safe to say nobody (not even a 'follower') has an idea as to how things work, but isn't this one thing 'religions,' or any sort of belief-systems, strive to do?--as does science, interestingly enough?

no. religion by design strives to attribute anything and everything to a higher power. which is the opposite of what science strives to do. the latter seeks to find out how things work. the former is content with god being the only answer.



also, too, as well: religions can be updated all they want, but this doesn't change a damn thing. i always envision it this way: if suddenly one day all the various types of temples and holy books and what-have-you were made to disappear somehow, there would still be 'Religion,' or spirituality, as some people like to distinguish it as. religions and dogmatic ways aren't the only way through which a person can worship and believe. while it works for some, i'd argue it's a much 'less better' way. i see religions as both good and bad in that sense.


whoa there buddy, maybe you should look at the definitions of religion and spirituality before you start spewing your own crap about the terms.



"Religions are a mask, but what do these masks prove?--the Face."
that quote is both esoteric and completely pointless to this discussion. but i'll bite anyways, a mask serves to hide the face. so in this metaphor, religions act to hide truth. which i fully agree with since the majority of religions have been built and adopted as a means to sustain power.

[chimbaktu]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

[danchuk]

chimmy, i'm sorry for the confusion when mixing the words 'religion' and 'spirituality.' i differentiate between the terms 'Religion' and 'religions,' mainly because of my views on life. to me religions are a slightly faulty, man-made thing, while Religion is something of a more natural, individual approach towards the living spirit inside man and every-thing.

this spirit is what i call God, so yes, I believe that technically then God is in everyone.

as for faith being nothing more than a trait between "ignorance and cowardice," i have to disagree.
it takes a great amount of strength to hold strongly onto a faith of any sort.

and to add, a person of a considerably strong faith--though a person such as you (i'm assuming here) may see it foolish and cowardly--is rarely if at all fearful of anything. this is not to say they walk in a smug, careless fashion. there just comes with faith an understanding of oneself and the life/lives all around it. there becomes a great awareness, and certainly one which provides proof, (personal, physical proof if you are patient enough), that this world is not the end of your existence.

[Krantz]

Chimbaktu, you're my new hero.

http://geekofalltrades.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/robocop-792844bmp.jpg

[someguy]

"Religions are a mask, but what do these masks prove?--the Face."
that quote is both esoteric and completely pointless to this discussion. but i'll bite anyways, a mask serves to hide the face. so in this metaphor, religions act to hide truth. which i fully agree with since the majority of religions have been built and adopted as a means to sustain power.

Okay, everything else you said does not bother me, but fuck you on this one, because this is another one of those trendy (yeah I said it) opinions that annoys the shit out of me. The nauseatingly common idea that religion is primarily a "means to sustain power" is a result of hindsight bias. Now that we see how powerful religions can become, we read conpiracies into their creation, as if Siddhartha himself explicitly thought "If the poor desire nothing, they will have no ambition to overthrow the rich."

It pains me to hear stories about professors asking accusatorily, "And why did the council of Nicea want to make it clear that Christ was not simply a mortal man," because no one, absolutely no one, would ever ask the question "And why? Why did Copernicus want us to believe that the sun was the center of the solar system?"

And no one would ask that question about Copernicus because that situation makes it abundantly clear how ridiculous the question is. There is only one answer: Copernicus earnestly sought the truth. The same is true of Jesus and Muhammad and the council of Nicea and probably most of the Popes, and any opinion to the contrary is just jaded and overly incredulous thinking.

Which is not to say that religions have not been used to maintain power, they undoubtedly have, but it is unfair of you to believe that they were created specifically for that purpose. Perhaps I have gotten overworked about the word "created" when you didn't really put that much thought into it.

[R-MONEY$$$]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

I am sorry to see you have such a negitive conotation about the word faith and the beauty it has. How do you feel about the word hope? with the exception of the casino, do you always play the odds? Because imho opinion it takes hope and faith to go against the odds (even more so if you plan to beat the odds). you cannot deny that you excercise faith and/or hope in your daily life, and if you do not you are missing a major joy and a very positive effect in your life.

I see your denail of faith similair as to a denial of love. You could sit around justifying love with logic all day and at the end of the day love is still a major motivator in life and has the potential to be an unbelievable feeling/reward. There is no shame in admitting that you do not work 100% off of logic because the truth is you don't. Majority of human decisions are based on emotion.

[Guest!mator]

too much quotage

[Charlie Hustles]

Fuck hope.

[R-MONEY$$$]

Fuck hope.

your killen me.

[Dignan]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

I am sorry to see you have such a negitive conotation about the word faith and the beauty it has. How do you feel about the word hope? with the exception of the casino, do you always play the odds? Because imho opinion it takes hope and faith to go against the odds (even more so if you plan to beat the odds). you cannot deny that you excercise faith and/or hope in your daily life, and if you do not you are missing a major joy and a very positive effect in your life.

I see your denial of faith similar as to a denial of love. You could sit around justifying love with logic all day and at the end of the day love is still a major motivator in life and has the potential to be an unbelievable feeling/reward. There is no shame in admitting that you do not work 100% off of logic because the truth is you don't. Majority of human decisions are based on emotion.

You kinda think like a-sheltered upper middle class middle aged woman. I don't need faith or hope because it is clear to me that most people think like you and can easily be taken advantage of. Faith is for the weak minded. Anyone can keep getting knocked down and "hope" and have "faith" that someone is taking care of them and things will get better,

[R-MONEY$$$]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

I am sorry to see you have such a negitive conotation about the word faith and the beauty it has. How do you feel about the word hope? with the exception of the casino, do you always play the odds? Because imho opinion it takes hope and faith to go against the odds (even more so if you plan to beat the odds). you cannot deny that you excercise faith and/or hope in your daily life, and if you do not you are missing a major joy and a very positive effect in your life.

I see your denial of faith similar as to a denial of love. You could sit around justifying love with logic all day and at the end of the day love is still a major motivator in life and has the potential to be an unbelievable feeling/reward. There is no shame in admitting that you do not work 100% off of logic because the truth is you don't. Majority of human decisions are based on emotion.

You kinda think like a-sheltered upper middle class middle aged woman. I don't need faith or hope because it is clear to me that most people think like you and can easily be taken advantage of. Faith is for the weak minded. Anyone can keep getting knocked down and "hope" and have "faith" that someone is taking care of them and things will get better,

You couldn't take advatage of me it is probably the other way around. Altough I am a good guy and do not take advantage of people, I help them. Faith isn't for the weak minded it is a tool that can be used behind your actions and it will actually make your actions more effective, as opposed to taking action with out faith or hope. I really should clarify that hope and faith are useless without action. If there isn't action behind the faith that faith is fairytale stuff. If there is no faith behind the action, than you are not being as effective as you can be.

[RyanMoran]

your nuts if you don't think gods real I'm 100% catholic.

[Dignan]

[quote:49cb3ccc9d="Guest!mator"]i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

I am sorry to see you have such a negitive conotation about the word faith and the beauty it has. How do you feel about the word hope? with the exception of the casino, do you always play the odds? Because imho opinion it takes hope and faith to go against the odds (even more so if you plan to beat the odds). you cannot deny that you excercise faith and/or hope in your daily life, and if you do not you are missing a major joy and a very positive effect in your life.

I see your denial of faith similar as to a denial of love. You could sit around justifying love with logic all day and at the end of the day love is still a major motivator in life and has the potential to be an unbelievable feeling/reward. There is no shame in admitting that you do not work 100% off of logic because the truth is you don't. Majority of human decisions are based on emotion.

You kinda think like a-sheltered upper middle class middle aged woman. I don't need faith or hope because it is clear to me that most people think like you and can easily be taken advantage of. Faith is for the weak minded. Anyone can keep getting knocked down and "hope" and have "faith" that someone is taking care of them and things will get better,

You couldn't take advatage of me it is probably the other way around. Altough I am a good guy and do not take advantage of people, I help them. Faith isn't for the weak minded it is a tool that can be used behind your actions and it will actually make your actions more effective, as opposed to taking action with out faith or hope. I really should clarify that hope and faith are useless without action. If there isn't action behind the faith that faith is fairytale stuff. If there is no faith behind the action, than you are not being as effective as you can be.[/quote:49cb3ccc9d]


YOU GOTTA BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dignan]

and besides the ones like you who think they can't be taken advantage of are the easiest to get. Give them what they want but don't need by making them beleive that they need it. You do it too. You'll deny it because you buy into it. You can't see the forest....

The only difference between you and me is your denial of the pointlessness and my acceptance. Maybe you wouldn't like it if you accepted it and thats why you try to grasp these flowery made for your for comfort concepts that ease your worry of being devoid of some super special purpose. To me the pointlessness of the whole scheme is its greatest virtue. Ripe for experimentation and exploration, the world is fantastic testament to the power of complex pattererns and reactions on whatever scale you chose to pay attention to. And with not worry of that imaginary permanent record that God keeps in his file cabinet the real full potentional of things can be imagined/brought to fruition..

[Guest!mator]

and besides the ones like you who think they can't be taken advantage of are the easiest to get. Give them what they want but don't need by making them beleive that they need it. You do it too. You'll deny it because you buy into it. You can't see the forest....

The only difference between you and me is your denial of the pointlessness and my acceptance. Maybe you wouldn't like it if you accepted it and thats why you try to grasp these flowery made for your for comfort concepts that ease your worry of being devoid of some super special purpose. To me the pointlessness of the whole scheme is its greatest virtue. Ripe for experimentation and exploration, the world is fantastic testament to the power of complex pattererns and reactions on whatever scale you chose to pay attention to. And with not worry of that imaginary permanent record that God keeps in his file cabinet the real full potentional of things can be imagined/brought to fruition..


that was an on-point perspective, fuckin sweet

[Dignan]

and besides the ones like you who think they can't be taken advantage of are the easiest to get. Give them what they want but don't need by making them beleive that they need it. You do it too. You'll deny it because you buy into it. You can't see the forest....

The only difference between you and me is your denial of the pointlessness and my acceptance. Maybe you wouldn't like it if you accepted it and thats why you try to grasp these flowery made for your for comfort concepts that ease your worry of being devoid of some super special purpose. To me the pointlessness of the whole scheme is its greatest virtue. Ripe for experimentation and exploration, the world is fantastic testament to the power of complex pattererns and reactions on whatever scale you chose to pay attention to. And with not worry of that imaginary permanent record that God keeps in his file cabinet the real full potentional of things can be imagined/brought to fruition..


that was an on-point perspective, fuckin sweet
thanks. Your sig scares the shit out of me.

[R-MONEY$$$]

and besides the ones like you who think they can't be taken advantage of are the easiest to get. Give them what they want but don't need by making them beleive that they need it. You do it too. You'll deny it because you buy into it. You can't see the forest....

The only difference between you and me is your denial of the pointlessness and my acceptance. Maybe you wouldn't like it if you accepted it and thats why you try to grasp these flowery made for your for comfort concepts that ease your worry of being devoid of some super special purpose. To me the pointlessness of the whole scheme is its greatest virtue. Ripe for experimentation and exploration, the world is fantastic testament to the power of complex pattererns and reactions on whatever scale you chose to pay attention to. And with not worry of that imaginary permanent record that God keeps in his file cabinet the real full potentional of things can be imagined/brought to fruition..

I think you have me confused with some one speaking of religious hope or hope for a heaven, and faith pertaining to believing the supernatrual claimed by the bible. I am speaking of hope in the the physical world. Like when a paralyzed person has hope to walk again and they excercise the faith to move forward with their rehab. That kind of hope and faith is a good thing.

The diffrence between you and I is your belief in a pointlessness. I do not know if there is a point or if there isn't a point (depending on the day I rest on a diffrent theory).

Your perspective is cool though

8)

[Dignan]

. I do not know if there is a point or if there isn't a point (depending on the day I rest on a diffrent theory).



I rested on that theory before this one, haha, The pointlessness became too obvious.

edit: and you're probably right that my disdain for the words hope and faith is related to how often they appear near words like angel and church..

[Charlie Hustles]

To me "hope" and "faith" imply powerlessness. That is why I do not like them.

Oh, ya, and this:

http://techbuddha.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/obama-hope.jpg

The double-speak, propaganda, and sub-conscious manipulation is incredible . . .

[Dignan]

To me "hope" and "faith" imply powerlessness. That is why I do not like them.

Oh, ya, and this:

http://techbuddha.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/obama-hope.jpg

The double-speak, propaganda, and sub-conscious manipulation is incredible . . .


bah.......

[chimbaktu]

i think people believe there's a god because they don't think there's an answer to how complex the world is, when in fact, energy can be converted into mass, meaning that in the begining all there was- was energy which was converted into mass by a giant explosion/big bang/ expansion of energy which converted to mass and created everything.

all we are is an astounding documentary of these chemical reactions following well-defined parameters.

a lot of people try to defend religion by tailoring their religious beliefs to accept these new modern scientific discoveries.


here's some food for thought....

Who edited the bible? the king james version that is, was it Shakespeare? who collected all of the books and said this happened and this didnt....you think there were single people named Mark, Luke, Matthew, and James that wrote books descrbiing Jesus' life? think again....those Gospels were written hundereds of years later from passed down oral tradition.

Think about this, back in the day the Pope had all of the power...more power than Kings of countries...you know why? because people believed in God and gave money to the church, which meant the church had more money than the kings aka the most power. noone would go against the church becasue they had the most money...the church therefore held back any scientific advancement that would say that God didnt exist or any proof that the church was wrong... because if the Church was wrong then people would stop giving money.... people dont realize that theyre buying into centuries of deception and corruption....just some food for thought.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen....


oxymoron; the definition of faith.

Shut the fuck up, faith is a positive trait for people and it is an attractive trait for people to have. People that display and have faith get further than those who do not. You work your entire life of off faith, You have the faith that your goals will come to fruition otherwise you would not be going to school and working towards the thing you are. Your attempt to belittle the word for whatever reason is a moot point and I am curious as to why you made it?

big difference here kiddo. i work towards what i do because i see positive results and can base predictions off of the trends that i've witnessed. i know that if i get good grades in school, then i am more likely to get a better job because there are statistics and precedence for such an assumption. that is not faith, that is observance. the opposite of what faith calls for.


if you want to quibble over a word, be my guest.


No, I don't want to quibble. You make a fair point and that is smart of you. It also takes faith to get behind the wheel of a car, you exercise the faith that you are not going to die, altough 45,000 people die a year in cars accidents. You can't deny the fact that you exercise faith in your daily life and that faith is a good thing and that it helps people move further in their lives than not having faith. its a good word.

I've actually been thinking about this since the other day, and I just came to a conclusion while pondering it as I enjoyed an L . . .

Faith is a good trait. It is better to generally have faith than to constantly be pessimisitc, however blind faith is not a good trait. Confidence is an even better trait to have. Not reckless over-confidence, but a calm and collected confidence in your self. Saying that you merely have faith infers that you are powerless to the ultimate outcome. Having confidence means that you know what the outcome will be because you truly believe that you are self-sufficient, self-reliant, and trusting of your own abilities.

Blind faith can be good sometimes. It took blind faith for me to dive into real estate. I view having faith is not being attached to the outcome because at the end of the day we do not have control over the outcome, We preform better in the moment when we are not attached to the outcome of our actions. But we have to have the faith that we will have a reasonable outcome.

Confidence is made in the moment, anyone can snap into confidence just by changing their posture. Reckless over confidense is Ego/arrogance and is very expensive/dangrous.

thanks for thinking about it. I was thinking about communism, and still havn't reached a typeable thought. so be ready for that one!


i'm a big fan of being in control of myself, and the outcome of my life. i know that there are countless random occurrences that can alter what happens to me throughout the day, but i have confidence in myself that i will react positively. that doesn't take faith, that takes self-awareness.

faith is what fills the void between ignorance and cowardice.

I am sorry to see you have such a negitive conotation about the word faith and the beauty it has. How do you feel about the word hope? with the exception of the casino, do you always play the odds? Because imho opinion it takes hope and faith to go against the odds (even more so if you plan to beat the odds). you cannot deny that you excercise faith and/or hope in your daily life, and if you do not you are missing a major joy and a very positive effect in your life.

I see your denail of faith similair as to a denial of love. You could sit around justifying love with logic all day and at the end of the day love is still a major motivator in life and has the potential to be an unbelievable feeling/reward. There is no shame in admitting that you do not work 100% off of logic because the truth is you don't. Majority of human decisions are based on emotion.

you once again seek analogous concepts that actually counteract your argument. love while often referred to in an ephemeral poetic concept, is defined physically through the chemical interactions in our brain triggered by pheromones, touch, and subconscious upbringing. hence why infatuation is so easily confused with love because they are essentially one in the same. the difference is that the latter is built off of a conscious effort to maintain the infatuation.


emotion isn't just some abstract concept that we attribute everything unknown to. it's not a religion. emotion stems from a physical reaction and can be traced to different hormones and other biochemical stimulus that are constantly engaging different centers of our brains.

[R-MONEY$$$]

you simply labeling them counteractive doesn't neccisarily make it so.

I don't think either of us will stand down from our displayed position. Yet I have learned a lot from you and your comments and I am sure it is the same for you. Thanks.

[Charlie Hustles]

Naw, R-Money, he fucking hates you, dog.

:lol:

[R-MONEY$$$]

I don't blame him. :D

[Charlie Hustles]

Haha, LOL's all around . . .

[Krantz]

This thread is awesome.

[dan lambert]

I'm sure it's been said, but here's my problem with 'God'.
Say he exists, he created us all.

We never see him, hear him, or get any real proof that he's there. He then causes all these natural disasters, diseases, all that type of shit. Expects us to live by a list of his rules. Then to top it off he says if you don't believe you'll burn for all eternity.
That's not cool in my book, I have a problem with anyone who says do as I say or I'll burn you.

I have put no real thought into this response, I have no problem with religion really as long as it's not being forced on me.

'If we are all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?'

[NathanC]

and besides the ones like you who think they can't be taken advantage of are the easiest to get. Give them what they want but don't need by making them beleive that they need it. You do it too. You'll deny it because you buy into it. You can't see the forest....

The only difference between you and me is your denial of the pointlessness and my acceptance. Maybe you wouldn't like it if you accepted it and thats why you try to grasp these flowery made for your for comfort concepts that ease your worry of being devoid of some super special purpose. To me the pointlessness of the whole scheme is its greatest virtue. Ripe for experimentation and exploration, the world is fantastic testament to the power of complex pattererns and reactions on whatever scale you chose to pay attention to. And with not worry of that imaginary permanent record that God keeps in his file cabinet the real full potentional of things can be imagined/brought to fruition..

I think you have me confused with some one speaking of religious hope or hope for a heaven, and faith pertaining to believing the supernatrual claimed by the bible. I am speaking of hope in the the physical world. Like when a paralyzed person has hope to walk again and they excercise the faith to move forward with their rehab. That kind of hope and faith is a good thing.

The diffrence between you and I is your belief in a pointlessness. I do not know if there is a point or if there isn't a point (depending on the day I rest on a diffrent theory).

Your perspective is cool though

8)

I don't really agree with him, but I sure as hell like how he writes

your a winnar Dignan 8)

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

your nuts if you don't think gods real I'm 100% catholic.


hahaha not this fucking kid again.

[Samir Nagheenanajar]

there is no god, and if there was i would hate him.

[someguy]

I'm sure it's been said, but here's my problem with 'God'.
Say he exists, he created us all.

We never see him, hear him, or get any real proof that he's there. He then causes all these natural disasters, diseases, all that type of shit. Expects us to live by a list of his rules. Then to top it off he says if you don't believe you'll burn for all eternity.
That's not cool in my book, I have a problem with anyone who says do as I say or I'll burn you.

I have put no real thought into this response, I have no problem with religion really as long as it's not being forced on me.

'If we are all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?'

Okay, I know you have probably heard this before, and it won't change the fact that you don't believe in God (I don't believe in God), but dogs and ants don't understand a lot of things that people do, and people are barely smarter than dogs at all in comparison to how much smarter God is than human beings.

You have to understand the worldview of a religion before you can place accurate judgements on their God/gods. Christians interpret the world from the perspective that there is a God and that God is omnibenevolent, so whatever is happening is what God wants to happen, if it does not make sense to you that is simply because you don't understand God's intentions. And considering how much greater God is than you (literally infinitely) it is quite plausible that you wouldn't understand his intentions.

But because atheists (like me for instance) are so intent on believing that God and his attributes simply don't exist, we see disasters and eternal punishment as indictments of a hypothetical God, because we refuse, stubbornly and unfairly, to wrap our heads around the incomprehensibility of God's omnibenevolence.

[dan lambert]

I'm sure it's been said, but here's my problem with 'God'.
Say he exists, he created us all.

We never see him, hear him, or get any real proof that he's there. He then causes all these natural disasters, diseases, all that type of shit. Expects us to live by a list of his rules. Then to top it off he says if you don't believe you'll burn for all eternity.
That's not cool in my book, I have a problem with anyone who says do as I say or I'll burn you.

I have put no real thought into this response, I have no problem with religion really as long as it's not being forced on me.

'If we are all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?'

Okay, I know you have probably heard this before, and it won't change the fact that you don't believe in God (I don't believe in God), but dogs and ants don't understand a lot of things that people do, and people are barely smarter than dogs at all in comparison to how much smarter God is than human beings.

You have to understand the worldview of a religion before you can place accurate judgements on their God/gods. Christians interpret the world from the perspective that there is a God and that God is omnibenevolent, so whatever is happening is what God wants to happen, if it does not make sense to you that is simply because you don't understand God's intentions. And considering how much greater God is than you (literally infinitely) it is quite plausible that you wouldn't understand his intentions.

But because atheists (like me for instance) are so intent on believing that God and his attributes simply don't exist, we see disasters and eternal punishment as indictments of a hypothetical God, because we refuse, stubbornly and unfairly, to wrap our heads around the incomprehensibility of God's omnibenevolence.
Makes sense, but like I said, I put no real thought into what I put it was just what I thought at that moment. I'm aware that it is really is quite ignorant of me to try to sum up something as big as religion in like 5 lines, but I've pretty much given up on trying to give intellectual responses (or more usually defenses) when talking to people about God.

[Guest!mator]

that's why religions have it wrong, they are bold enough to say that their way is the right way when noone really knows!

[Krantz]

I'm sure it's been said, but here's my problem with 'God'.
Say he exists, he created us all.

We never see him, hear him, or get any real proof that he's there. He then causes all these natural disasters, diseases, all that type of shit. Expects us to live by a list of his rules. Then to top it off he says if you don't believe you'll burn for all eternity.
That's not cool in my book, I have a problem with anyone who says do as I say or I'll burn you.

I have put no real thought into this response, I have no problem with religion really as long as it's not being forced on me.

'If we are all God's children, what's so special about Jesus?'

Okay, I know you have probably heard this before, and it won't change the fact that you don't believe in God (I don't believe in God), but dogs and ants don't understand a lot of things that people do, and people are barely smarter than dogs at all in comparison to how much smarter God is than human beings.

You have to understand the worldview of a religion before you can place accurate judgements on their God/gods. Christians interpret the world from the perspective that there is a God and that God is omnibenevolent, so whatever is happening is what God wants to happen, if it does not make sense to you that is simply because you don't understand God's intentions. And considering how much greater God is than you (literally infinitely) it is quite plausible that you wouldn't understand his intentions.

But because atheists (like me for instance) are so intent on believing that God and his attributes simply don't exist, we see disasters and eternal punishment as indictments of a hypothetical God, because we refuse, stubbornly and unfairly, to wrap our heads around the incomprehensibility of God's omnibenevolence.

I'd argue that it's stubborn and unfair of monotheistic religions to expect us as a species to wrap our heads around the incomprehensibility of "God's" ombibenevolence.

So, atheist, what makes you loathe your brethren so much?

[Guest!mator]

you need to realize that whether jesus really lived or not shouldn't affect his message and that's the whole point.

[dan lambert]

you need to realize that whether jesus really lived or not shouldn't affect his message and that's the whole point.
Oh I get that, I threw that line in because I literally just heard it on a stand up comedy thing I was watching as I was typing.

edit, I don't think that was actually aimed at me

[Charlie Hustles]

Who fucking cares?! If God or the Devil is real, I am going to punch them in the fucking face when I meet them.

[dan lambert]

Who fucking cares?! If God or the Devil is real, I am going to punch them in the fucking face when I meet them.
If God or the Devil are real Charlie, let's face it you won't be punching God in the face :wink:

[Charlie Hustles]

I'll shit on that Nancy.

[nyrolla420]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

To deny the existence of evil is very ignorant and very much supports evil. There is true moral justice hence there is good. There is so much beyond this material universe that cant be measured or observed by the five physical sences so scientists and drug peddling pychiatrists dont even consider it and whatever they dont consider is not branded a "truth". Sounds alot like a religion doesnt it? It has been proven too many times throughout history that todays obscurities are tomorows scientific "truths". When the idea that "TIME" fluctuates and is not constant surfaced people ridiculed and scorned it, but it was later proven through technology that "time" is different everywhere in the universe. For example the sun is 98 million miles away from earth, light travels at 186,000 miles per second, so it takes 7 MINUTES for the light of the sun to reach the earth. That means when your looking at the sun your really seeing it where it was SEVEN MINUTES ago, becuase the light takes seven minutes to get to earth and within those 7 minutes the earth has been rotating so what your seeing is an ILLUSION, that illusion is so strong you can go blind by looking at this illusory sun. This system is clearly one of ignorance and illusions which is very much EVIL. And is not explained away by robotic answers such as the one you gave above. And if you really believe that human beings came from one celled organisms which is the core belief of the THEORY of evolution, then you should just :arrow:

[Krantz]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

To deny the existence of evil is very ignorant and very much supports evil. There is true moral justice hence there is good. There is so much beyond this material universe that cant be measured or observed by the five physical sences so scientists and drug peddling pychiatrists dont even consider it and whatever they dont consider is not branded a "truth". Sounds alot like a religion doesnt it? It has been proven too many times throughout history that todays obscurities are tomorows scientific "truths". When the idea that "TIME" fluctuates and is not constant surfaced people ridiculed and scorned it, but it was later proven through technology that "time" is different everywhere in the universe. For example the sun is 98 million miles away from earth, light travels at 186,000 miles per second, so it takes 7 MINUTES for the light of the sun to reach the earth. That means when your looking at the sun your really seeing it where it was SEVEN MINUTES ago, becuase the light takes seven minutes to get to earth and within those 7 minutes the earth has been rotating so what your seeing is an ILLUSION, that illusion is so strong you can go blind by looking at this illusory sun. This system is clearly one of ignorance and illusions which is very much EVIL. And is not explained away by robotic answers such as the one you gave above. And if you really believe that human beings came from one celled organisms which is the core belief of the THEORY of evolution, then you should just :arrow:

Prove to me that evil exists.

[dan lambert]

ironically i'm doing a philosophy paper on Evil and Free Will and my paper pertains to the existence of God.

i got two views from the reading so far.

1) People need something to believe in when the perils of their lives are revealed to them so they manifest a being that is all powerful and all righteous so they can believe that there is the better good.

2) Everything on Earth doesn't manifest itself from thin air. Everything can be proven to have come from something earlier, thus evolution, and that the chain goes back further than anyone can date. So God can't really exist without a prior form.

fuck it. iono why i typed that

You got those two views from reading on evil and free will? Not that those points are not something to be considered, just that they seem unrelated to your paper topic.

I focused on God and the problem of evil and free will for my minor focus in college. It's interesting stuff, and provides some of the most challenging critiques of religion I have ever read.

the quick, easy, and dirty answer is there is no good or evil. just subjective perspectives based on cultural and societal influences, as well as natural instincts developed in our evolutionary process.

god only becomes a factor as a person tries to impose his perspective on others through the hope for an "absolute" that does not exist. god is merely an extension of a person's search for purpose where there is none.

To deny the existence of evil is very ignorant and very much supports evil. There is true moral justice hence there is good. There is so much beyond this material universe that cant be measured or observed by the five physical sences so scientists and drug peddling pychiatrists dont even consider it and whatever they dont consider is not branded a "truth". Sounds alot like a religion doesnt it? It has been proven too many times throughout history that todays obscurities are tomorows scientific "truths". When the idea that "TIME" fluctuates and is not constant surfaced people ridiculed and scorned it, but it was later proven through technology that "time" is different everywhere in the universe. For example the sun is 98 million miles away from earth, light travels at 186,000 miles per second, so it takes 7 MINUTES for the light of the sun to reach the earth. That means when your looking at the sun your really seeing it where it was SEVEN MINUTES ago, becuase the light takes seven minutes to get to earth and within those 7 minutes the earth has been rotating so what your seeing is an ILLUSION, that illusion is so strong you can go blind by looking at this illusory sun. This system is clearly one of ignorance and illusions which is very much EVIL. And is not explained away by robotic answers such as the one you gave above. And if you really believe that human beings came from one celled organisms which is the core belief of the THEORY of evolution, then you should just :arrow:

Prove to me that evil exists.
Prove to me that we didn't all evolve from single celled organisms, and some invisible entity just made us one day during his arts and crafts week

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

Prove to me that evil exists.

it doesn't. evil is simply a label man uses for something he doesn't approve of.