The worst thing about the Deshi Carbons...

[Krantz]

Is that you'll cry more when you land in the mud than when you actually hurt yourself. I can almost feel the dollars shedding from my skin as they gradually pick up wear and tear.

[dan lambert]

I feel like that with every new pair of skates I get, you'll get over it in a month or so.
Assuming they last that long

[WeatherMike]

HEY BUTTCUNT, AT LEAST YOU FUCKING HAVE YOURS, SUCK A GIANT HORSE ASS AND GET THE FUCK OUT :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:




jk. i'm just butthurt. I decided that if i were going to drop $450 on skates, i would rather give it to my local shop, who still doesn't have a solid date on the carbons. RAD.
:cry:
now i'll :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

[BroChadChill17]

Price = ridiculous

[Krantz]

HEY BUTTCUNT, AT LEAST YOU FUCKING HAVE YOURS, SUCK A GIANT HORSE ASS AND GET THE FUCK OUT :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:




jk. i'm just butthurt. I decided that if i were going to drop $450 on skates, i would rather give it to my local shop, who still doesn't have a solid date on the carbons. RAD.
:cry:
now i'll :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

That's okay, I understand your frustration. Remember the glue fiasco? I can't guarantee anything, but I can almost maybe uncertainly guarantee that when you get them, you'll love them. They are great skates.......SO FAR!

:shock:

[WeatherMike]

i've been rubbing myself off every second of every day since the first mention of them. im more than ready.

[941MAN]

post pics

[WeatherMike]

i've been rubbing myself off every second of every day since the first mention of them. im more than ready.


post pics

:? :? :?

[Samir Nagheenanajar]

Price = ridiculous

[formerly galenaskater]

Price = ridiculous

wrong. 350 isn't that much for a quality boot. fucking oxygen argon 3.1s were 340 close to 15 years ago and were complete garbage, even at the time they weren't all that great. people complain for years about skate companies rereleasing the same boot over and over with different colors and now something comes out that might be a tad/possibly alot beter, and people CONTINUE TO BITCH ABOUT THE PRICE

do you even realize how much those boot molds cost to produce. a skate like the genesis costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per shell. you need 4 shells to accomodate 6-13 and what do you know, a 7 digit debt before you even have time to test them properly let alone sell any of them in hopes to get their startup capital back.

[Bassimastprime]

i've been rubbing myself off every second of every day since the first mention of them. im more than ready.


post pics

:? :? :?

:lol:

[Coopnasty]

I remember I got my shima 1's for $400 about 8 or more years ago. These skates look pretty quality and def seem worth the price but I won't buy until a good review.

[formerly galenaskater]

I remember I got my shima 1's for $400 about 8 or more years ago. These skates look pretty quality and def seem worth the price but I won't buy until a good review.

exactly.

[nasar]

Price = ridiculous

wrong. 350 isn't that much for a quality boot. fucking oxygen argon 3.1s were 340 close to 15 years ago and were complete garbage, even at the time they weren't all that great. people complain for years about skate companies rereleasing the same boot over and over with different colors and now something comes out that might be a tad/possibly alot beter, and people CONTINUE TO BITCH ABOUT THE PRICE

do you even realize how much those boot molds cost to produce. a skate like the genesis costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per shell. you need 4 shells to accomodate 6-13 and what do you know, a 7 digit debt before you even have time to test them properly let alone sell any of them in hopes to get their startup capital back.


WRONG!

its some chinese ski company, the genesys shell.
razors has only patents on the souls and cuffs i think.
and razors has exclusive rights to use that shell, but not the classic shell anymore.

[drew_amato]

I loved my red argons so go to hell.

[irollinthe215]

hundreds of thousands of dollars?

I think we're a little overestimating here

[RollingDist46Sweden]

hmmm yea.. hundreds of thousands lol... :roll:

[jay cocain]

hundreds of thousands of dollars?

I think we're a little overestimating here

[UnknownPleasures]

Boot molds are over 100k.

I've heard this numerous fucking times.

This is why we don't have new skates every 2 years and the m12 shell is still around.

[blackgold]

Boot molds are over 100k.

I've heard this numerous fucking times.

This is why we don't have new skates every 2 years and the m12 shell is still around.

Calm down man, don't hurt yourself.

100k is a big number though, where's the source?

[Bazodazo]

Boot molds are over 100k.

I've heard this numerous fucking times.

This is why we don't have new skates every 2 years and the m12 shell is still around.

Calm down man, don't hurt yourself.

100k is a big number though, where's the source?


i heard it was over 9000

[UnknownPleasures]

Boot molds are over 100k.

I've heard this numerous fucking times.

This is why we don't have new skates every 2 years and the m12 shell is still around.

Calm down man, don't hurt yourself.

100k is a big number though, where's the source?

IM PUNCHING MY FUCKING KEYBOARD.

Al is my source, nothing else.

If he's wrong then , SRFHGHW WHATEVA!

[PA]

there is no way a boot mold is over $100k, maybe all the diffrent size boot molds together.

[blackgold]

I wouldn't say he's wrong, I've just never heard a number like that before. Paying 100k for a different way of cutting out plastic is just ridiculous.

[R-MONEY$$$]

I can see it costing over 100k easily. People, parts, labor, r and d, patons, TAXES, etc etc. I bet 100k is on the low end for a new boot.

[jonathan]

I wouldn't say he's wrong, I've just never heard a number like that before. Paying 100k for a different way of cutting out plastic is just ridiculous.

That's not the expensive part. it's creating the mold that forms the plastic to begin with.

I know 9,000 is way to low of a price to create a new boot mold.


Remember how all the pros were hyping up the aragon twos because that was the first new boot mold since the murda's? and all they did was a slight modification? Razor made a big deal because it dug deep into their pocket books.

[t1m_t3b0w]

i remember if you paid $300 you got an entire skate (with wheels frames etc), and it was top of the line. now pay $350 for just a boot? time to dig out the remz out of my garage

[Freddy White]

i remember if you paid $300 you got an entire skate (with wheels frames etc), and it was top of the line. now pay $350 for just a boot? time to dig out the remz out of my garage

Time to learn a little bit more about a notion called "inflation".

And then think about how little it affected the prices of rollerskates in the past 15 years.

[:(]

for <100k you could pay a bunch of kenyan kids to do the boot molds individually for you

[t1m_t3b0w]

i remember if you paid $300 you got an entire skate (with wheels frames etc), and it was top of the line. now pay $350 for just a boot? time to dig out the remz out of my garage

Time to learn a little bit more about a notion called "inflation".

And then think about how little it affected the prices of rollerskates in the past 15 years.

i didnt realize that the deshis were made of new material, or that specific model. makes more sense now, ive been out of the loop :X

[davedinuzzo]

I wouldn't say he's wrong, I've just never heard a number like that before. Paying 100k for a different way of cutting out plastic is just ridiculous.

100k is pretty on point actually... Ski Boot molds are generally 100-150k PER SIZE which is why there is no real half sizes in ski boots, or rollerblades, just thicker footbeds in the same size liners

[BroChadChill17]

Price = ridiculous

wrong. 350 isn't that much for a quality boot. fucking oxygen argon 3.1s were 340 close to 15 years ago and were complete garbage, even at the time they weren't all that great. people complain for years about skate companies rereleasing the same boot over and over with different colors and now something comes out that might be a tad/possibly alot beter, and people CONTINUE TO BITCH ABOUT THE PRICE

do you even realize how much those boot molds cost to produce. a skate like the genesis costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per shell. you need 4 shells to accomodate 6-13 and what do you know, a 7 digit debt before you even have time to test them properly let alone sell any of them in hopes to get their startup capital back.

Cool story, bro.

I will CONTINUE TO BITCH ABOUT THE PRICE umm well because it is absolutely fucking ridiculous for me to spend 350 for a new boot in a god damn recession.

[al dolega]

I remember I got my shima 1's for $400

It was about 7 years, and if you paid $400 you got ripped off! They retailed at $300, maybe $320 at some shops.


WRONG!

its some chinese ski company, the genesys shell.
razors has only patents on the souls and cuffs i think.
and razors has exclusive rights to use that shell, but not the classic shell anymore.

Actually, you're wrong. The Genesys shell is made in China, yes, but it's 100% owned and designed by Razors. The patents, I haven't looked up in a while, so I'm not sure if there's one on the shell or not; but even if Razors didn't have a patent on the bootshell, that wouldn't mean they didn't own it. You are correct that they do not own the "classic"/"cult" shell, that's an "open" mold from their manufacturer.


I wouldn't say he's wrong, I've just never heard a number like that before. Paying 100k for a different way of cutting out plastic is just ridiculous.

Molds do not "cut out plastic". Molds are a multi-piece, robotic (or at least automated) precision assembly, that has to come together and apart quickly in an exact, perfectly repeatable manner, hundreds of thousands or even millions of times.

They are created on large, high-precision CNC's and there is a shitload of engineering in a boot mold to ensure even material flow, minimal shrinkage and warpage, injection points and clearances.

Are the resulting parts inexpensive, in themselves? Yes. Material costs are low, and a properly-designed and operated mold can pump out tons of parts per day, with minimal human interaction... but the setup fees are huge, and you have to make your money back. Also remember that you need to multiply this cost by right and left molds, in multiple sizes (usually at least four).

This is also why skate models get cheaper over time- the company has paid off their initial investment- i.e. Cults being $150 now when they were $300 5-6 years ago.


Remember how all the pros were hyping up the aragon twos because that was the first new boot mold since the murda's? and all they did was a slight modification? Razor made a big deal because it dug deep into their pocket books.

The SL mold is not a "slight modification", it is an entirely new design and set of molds. The last (inner shape of the boot) is modeled after the "Cult" shell, yes, but that does not mean they share molds.



i remember if you paid $300 you got an entire skate (with wheels frames etc), and it was top of the line. now pay $350 for just a boot? time to dig out the remz out of my garage

Time to learn a little bit more about a notion called "inflation".

And then think about how little it affected the prices of rollerskates in the past 15 years.

Excellent point, Freddy, especially when considering that at the same time, skates have gotten WAY better, and the market has gotten WAY smaller. Both of which should have made skates WAY more expensive.

Also, t1m, just because the Carbon is $350 boot-only does not mean the entire market is going to inflate to that level. You're still going to be able to buy, say, two complete pairs of Cults or Downtowns, or a top-shelf custom setup in pretty much any other skate, for $350. Don't go all Chicken Little on us now.

[Bazodazo]

al just ripped this thread apart

[al dolega]

al just ripped this thread apart

It's what I do 8)

[Patrick]

I think you guys saying it cost over 100k to get one mold made are just un-informed.

First I think its so funny that a bunch of skaters pretend to know how what happens behind closed doors of skate companies.

When i worked at the Electric car factory we looked at getting new molds made for the body parts and it was around 100k for the whole car!

http://bigmanev.com/2005/carpics/bm48/bm08frbg.jpg

Also all the tooling etc for this.

Plus the molds for skates would be pretty simple.

http://epsilonindustries.com/pricing/cost-of-tooling/level-2/

Its not hard to get a hunk of metal on a cnc machine and have it cut for injection molding. I could probably get it CADed up and cut locally from Jim bobs CNC within the week.

Look at all the little pieces of plastic and integrated interlocking parts that goes into a model toy car plus you have a million models of cars to make. All those little pieces have to have separate molds. According to skate industry insiders it would probably take a couple thousand G's to make those $5-$10 models.


I'm not saying its cheap to get molds made but its no billion dollar investment.

It just wouldn't be feasible to spend that kind of cash for $200 RETAIL, even less wholesale, niche market product.

[Freddy White]

i remember if you paid $300 you got an entire skate (with wheels frames etc), and it was top of the line. now pay $350 for just a boot? time to dig out the remz out of my garage

Time to learn a little bit more about a notion called "inflation".

And then think about how little it affected the prices of rollerskates in the past 15 years.

Excellent point, Freddy, especially when considering that at the same time, skates have gotten WAY better, and the market has gotten WAY smaller. Both of which should have made skates WAY more expensive.

Quoted for my fap fap fapping needs.

[Coopnasty]

I remember I got my shima 1's for $400

It was about 7 years, and if you paid $400 you got ripped off! They retailed at $300, maybe $320 at some shops.



K al

[nasar]

al just ripped this thread apart

It's what I do 8)

ok al, but what is your opinion on the price?