The future of Earth and Human civilization, the death of Governments

[Garett]

You can skip through all the matrix shit in the first part, but yeah. I've heard of the pvenus project before, and it's basically true utopia on earth, and completely feasible. Is this the solution to our global crisis? The way the planet is managed and ran is wrong. It's finally imploding in on itself, greed and special interests corrupt and put money before humanity. It's totally unsustainable and you'd have to be a moron to think it can just keep on going the way it is. Honestly I would throw everything away to live on a planet like this. Thoughts? Hippy rants? Honestly, why the fuck aren't we living like this yet? Economic slavery.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGO721AkYeA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRzM6PokEY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kjvlq1Rr7Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4FvN9w1ems&NR=1

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

Die hippy scum!

[tyson]

i didn't watch it but i honestly i bet its a good idea. but no matter what there'll be some fuck face who is still concerned about the thickness of his wallet, his red ferrari compensating for his man hood, and the silly bimbo thats in it for the money....

[Grindguru]

no matter what there'll be some fuck face who is still concerned about the thickness of his wallet, his red ferrari compensating for his man hood, and the silly bimbo thats in it for the money....

This

And most read history, but very few learn anything from it

[Red Rider]

I still don't really understand the Venus project. I skimmed the website and just saw a bunch of fancy drawings of future houses and stuff. The fact is, there is work to be done and I don't see how we as a society can motivate each other to do that work without financial compensation. For instance, if I'm a farmer and I grow acres and acres of food, what's motivating me to continue to do so and feed everybody else if I'm not being compensated for it anymore?

[wujcik]

as long as money and fast cars get pussy this will never happen.

[formerly galenaskater]

as long as money and fast cars get pussy this will never happen.

roughly translated

THIS

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

Shit wont happen because people with the money get the money for a reason.
That being they only do things that would benefit themselves financially.
Unless of course their spreading the fake word of god, for which again,they do it because it will benefit them financially later on and its fun controlling the weaker minded.

[Charlie Hustles]

I have watched this before and I just watched it again. At first, it seems like they have some promising ideas, but, upon further reflection, many significant flaws become apparent.

They say that they are going to do away with The State, but, in reality, they are simply installing an oligarchy (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oligarchy). (Remember: Absolute power corrupts absolutely.)

"For a movement to be “political,” it doesn’t require political parties and leadership; political movements can be non-hierarchical and have nothing to do with the state . . . "

" . . . Marx’s acknowledgements are spot-on; it is his techniques on how to have revolution that many believed to be flawed. Marx favored an educated sect of the working-class, what he referred to as the dictatorship of the proletariat, running a transition state which would yield a stateless, classless, society, sans monetary systems . . . "

These two quotes are from The Problem With "Zeitgeist" (http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/9161), a very thought-provoking critique on this subject.



Another flaw would be the underlying premise that technology is always good or at least neutral. There are many people who would certainly disagree.

Green anarchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_anarchism) on Technology:

"Technology is seen as a system rather than a specific physical tool. Technology, it is argued, requires the exploitation of the environment through the creation and extraction of resources, and the exploitation of people through labor, work, and slavery, industrialism, specialization and the division of labor. There is no "neutral" form of technology as things are always created in a certain context with certain aims and functions. Green technology is rejected as an attempt to reform this exploitative system, merely changing it on the surface to make it seem environmentally friendly, despite sustained levels of human and natural exploitation. In place of modern technology, green anarchists favor small-scale technology, using more sustainable and local resources."

Anarcho-primitivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism) on Technology:

"Primitivists denounce modern technology completely. They see it as a complex system involving division of labor, resource extraction, and exploitation for the benefit of those who implement its process. They argue that the interface with and result of modern technology is always an alienated, mediated, and distorted reality. Modern technology too, like science, is seen as not being value-neutral. The values and goals of those who produce and control technology are believed always to be embedded within it.

Modern technology is held by primitivists to be distinct from simple tools in many regards. A simple tool is considered a temporary usage of an element within our immediate surroundings, used for a specific task. Tools are not viewed as involving complex systems which alienate the user from the act. Primitivists claim that this separation is implicit in technology, which creates an unhealthy and mediated experience which leads to various forms of authority. Domination is said to increase every time a modern "time-saving" technology is created, as primitivists claim it necessitates the construction of more technology to support, fuel, maintain, and repair the original technology. It is argued by primitivists that this leads very rapidly to the establishment of a complex technological system that seems to have an existence independent of the humans who created it. Primitivists believe that this system methodically destroys, eliminates, or subordinates the natural world, constructing a world fit only for machines."



To once again quote the first article that I mentioned . . .

" . . . Zeitgeist . . . is, after all, weak in theory, and seems to come from a film-maker who realized that the conspiracism that made his first video so popular is losing momentum (this is certainly a good thing that the alienated, mostly white males, who patronized the intellectually bankrupt industry of distraction seem to be abandoning it). But it is sort of quasi-anarchistic, and quite popular. This gives libertarians, whether Marxian or anarchist, an opportunity to discuss their ideas with people who may have previously been unsympathetic to anarchism. It can be a nice segue, like “You know, this whole Zeitgeist thing is pretty close to anarchism.”

[wujcik]

chuck.
maybe you spent too much time away.



WALL OF TEXT.




Same rules as email:
no double spaceing
simple subject
NO BIGGER THAN THE BOX GIVEN - that is what attachments are for

[Charlie Hustles]

Personally, I enjoy walls of text.



"What's today's mathematics, son?"

"Knowledge, God."

[portrait of a gentleman]

Personally, I enjoy walls of text.



"What's today's mathematics, son?"

"Knowledge, God."

The Chef <3

[Charlie Hustles]

Pot.

[Charlie Hustles]

Anybody know any other good "utopia" documentaries?

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

greed and special interests corrupt and put money before humanity.


wrong. greed IS humanity because life is nothing more than a competition for resources. if people didn't kill each other for money then they would do it for land, food, water, or whatever is deemed valuable at the time. haven't you noticed that the only ones complaining about this are the ones who have the least or who aren't getting a share? that should tell you something right there.

[Charlie Hustles]

Would there need to be competition for resources if their abundance was not manipulated into scarcity?

I have had and currently have my "piece of the pie" (though, I have come to realize that I require a significantly smaller piece to be happy than I used to think). How do you explain my beliefs?

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

the argument in this case is the assumption that the only way to organize human society and the only form of organization that has only existed, is a ruthless and cutthroat life where those at the top are there because they earned and deserve to be there and those at the bottom have personally failed

just because we have fast cars and ipods doesn't mean we are immune to natural selection. excluding chance, if you're on top then it's most likely because you or your ancestors did something better than everyone else. if you're on the bottom then it's most likely because you or your ancestors fucked up.

[randy lahey]

personally i'm pretty thankful the west was able to mechanize industries and individuals. i think it's pretty cool that a fraction of an hour at our minimum wage can buy a pack of t-shirts.

[Charlie Hustles]

I'm sure the planet and our children's children won't be so thankful.

[BEEF]

there comes a point where you are taught something so much that those who have a reason to proliferate the argument, those who are benefiting from the current situation, those who created the arguments in the first place no longer even have to argue for it themselves because they have people like Chalmers over here who does it for them

the argument in this case is the assumption that the only way to organize human society and the only form of organization that has only existed, is a ruthless and cutthroat life where those at the top are there because they earned and deserve to be there and those at the bottom have personally failed; you could call it institutionalized informal slavery, when you realize that this is not and has not been the only way to exist, both historically and theoretically, you start to say to yourself WHAT THE FUCK and become i guess the term is a dissident; but when you accept this perspective this is how a discourse--- 'knowledge'---- keeps people in line with the status quo

but even somebody like me is benefiting enormously from the status quo; a person in a 'developing' country is getting the true shaft; regardless, even if i am benefiting i am at least AWARE of this and i am very upset by it, i don't think i will be a complacent little middle class consumer for long

top / most dominant exists in nature and has for billions of years, down to the smallest 'most successful' microorganisms. Competition & rank are inherent in LIFE literally, lifeforms. survival is the goal and success drives each being. its too inherent to fix with some system, no matter how well organized or thought out that might be.

[gatsby]

as long as you realize that your argument has no scientific basis, and that you are using the words "natural selection" out of context, i don't care if you agree with me

but i can't let you think that your argument is scientifically legitimate, it is not

[Charlie Hustles]

Dude is just wrecking shit.

[Diet Kyle]

Dude is just wrecking shit.

word

[DanRine]

wrong. greed IS humanity because life is nothing more than a competition for resources. if people didn't kill each other for money then they would do it for land, food, water, or whatever is deemed valuable at the time. haven't you noticed that the only ones complaining about this are the ones who have the least or who aren't getting a share? that should tell you something right there.

You live a sad and pointless life if its nothing to you but a competition for resources. If life is about nothing but hording an abundance of resources for self gratification, then I have some sad news for you-- you're never gonna have enough. I have actually noticed that the ones complaining about this are the ones who think critically and ethically, and don't show a selfish sense of entitlement, and a need to justify why they shouldn't feel any obligation to share whatever wealth they are afforded with other people. I have had more than my share, and this mentality still pisses me off more than anything. The reason I want to leave the country is because selfishness is such a fundamental part of American culture that people like you actually try to philosophically justify selfishness and excessive consumption.

[ercaderk]

"There is no human nature"

Had to stop there.

[DanRine]

just because we have fast cars and ipods doesn't mean we are immune to natural selection. excluding chance, if you're on top then it's most likely because you or your ancestors did something better than everyone else. if you're on the bottom then it's most likely because you or your ancestors fucked up.

That's a perfect example of the type of backward ass thinking I'm talking about. My ancestors killed the Native Americans, exploited African slaves and likewise, and now I'm "on top", if that's what you mean by my ancestors "doing something better" than the ancestors of less fortunate people. If you're on the bottom it's most likely because you or your ancestors were victims of people like my ancestors.

So is the future just a continued abuse and exploitation of certain people for the benefit of others, or is it possible to make the world an overall better place where people live better and don't hate each other so much? Isn't that the point of life-- to leave the world a little bit better place than if you never had lived? Oh wait no that's right the point of life is to horde resources.

[ercaderk]

Isn't that the point of life-- to leave the world a little bit better place than if you never had lived?

Haha, keep dreaming

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

Theres a big difference between 'surviving' as in survival of the fittest and having more than you need because it makes you feel great.

Humans have evolved from 'have a kid by 16, keep kid alive till kid can fend for self , then die'.
So trying to justify our lives to nature is bullshit, we;ve outgrown nature and outgrown this idea of the strongest survives.

[ercaderk]

Theres a big difference between 'surviving' as in survival of the fittest and having more than you need because it makes you feel great.

Humans have evolved from 'have a kid by 16, keep kid alive till kid can fend for self , then die'.
So trying to justify our lives to nature is bullshit, we;ve outgrown nature and outgrown this idea of the strongest survives.

I've been trying to lay off the "be-mag politics argument" tip for a while, but fuck it.

First of all, crawling out from the rock you live under might be pretty enlightening, considering there are plenty of families that would gladly abandon their kid(s), if there were no consequence for them. There are also some who do so disregarding any consequence.

Also, how the fuck do you "outgrow" nature? I commend you for that idea. I think it could stem into a ridiculous enough theory that it could be taught in public schools legally.

Lastly, it makes complete sense that anyone would attribute their actions to what is happening around them. The thought of someone actually using their own brain to asses a situation is ridiculous, let alone the concept of "human nature." It's pretty obvious that the environment that a person experiences completely determines who they are.

[2 Chainz]

the argument in this case is the assumption that the only way to organize human society and the only form of organization that has only existed, is a ruthless and cutthroat life where those at the top are there because they earned and deserve to be there and those at the bottom have personally failed; you could call it institutionalized informal slavery, when you realize that this is not and has not been the only way to exist, both historically and theoretically, you start to say to yourself WHAT THE FUCK and become i guess the term is a dissident; but when you accept this perspective this is how a discourse--- 'knowledge'---- keeps people in line with the status
I agree with everything you've said so far, but I want to expand on this paragraph.

What if the people that made this were so ruthless, so cutthroat, and so selfish; that in order to achieve this maximum goal of eternal happiness, they must figure out how to execute this plan over time, no matter what it takes? This plan started a long time ago, passed down many generations, I believe. That is not science, just personal belief. Unfortunately, science is now proving this to be true.

Evolution is happening on earth, and even in the farthest depths of the ocean. A monster is upon us, it is called Technology. When would man-kind ever feel threatened enough to build a better society? I think the only answer to that is when the barrier is broken between man and machine. When man crosses technology with animals, insects, and fish. You cannot cross technology into humans, only control them. At least I hope, and pray for. Or can you? This is my major delima with this Venus Project...

Are these the people behind science's abundant continuous discoveries that continue to occur, every day?
Are these the people behind the truth that society has yet to realize, that their time is numbered?
Are these the people that will eventually control us like robots?

I'm not sure what to think of all this. It makes my stomach feel uneasy. Everyday, I learn of what the future will be like,
and it scares the shit out of me.

In the end, it will be science itself that makes Life disappear.

We are in the end times...
The only way out now is for God to show his face,
or for the select few to move on to another world.

If you don't believe that last statement, then ask yourself,
"Why is Obama so worried about space?"
Because he is the president, and knows almost everything.

He knows those are the two only answers at this point,
and only one is plausible.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

Outgrow nature: Who or what is the next most intelligent being on earth? A monkey maybe?

While their greatest skills are rollerskating, smoking and inventing the best way to open bananas (from the bottom is best), we travelled to the moon, replace body parts and can destroy the earth.
Thats ontop of the fact we know he we were created. We can make it rain if we want to and we can change the earths weather.

We are so far ahead of any other being that we have evolved so much faster that we have outgrown nature.
We dont fuckingneed nature, its obvious by the way we put 0$ value on it.

[2 Chainz]

Also, how the fuck do you "outgrow" nature? I commend you for that idea. I think it could stem into a ridiculous enough theory that it could be taught in public schools legally.

Actually, you are correct.
It IS a ridiculous enough theory to be taught legally in public schools, it's just if we have enough time to fully understand it, recognize it, and take action before it's too late.
It's all supported by the ongoing documentation of Life.
But wait, that's not a theory, is it?
If we can survive nature, it will be taught to everyone.
You've got some shit to figure out, huh?


we have evolved so much faster that we have outgrown nature.
We dont fuckingneed nature, its obvious by the way we put 0$ value on it.

It's nature itself that our species will be doing ANYTHING to get away from, thanks to our evolution in outgrowing nature.
I just wish there was a reverse button.

[Garett]

Fuck yah this thread is goin the way I was hoping, it's saterday night and I am already hammered. Richie oldgrey balls Eisler and I are way to an epic housE party right now, can't wai lt to sober up and indulge in these walls of text, it may be a fuckin roller lade message board but we are all young free thinking men who are going to change the world with our ideas, we shape and make the world and future, the more you realize this and
live your life by this creed, the better life gets for everyone. Fuck your piece of pie, share it you selfish cunts, your situation in life is a complete fluke thank your ancestors all you want but life is a lottery, realize this. All us are so fuckin lucky to not be born in Nigeria instead be born as middle income kids who have the oportunity to fullfil their dreams in a country with an abundance of it. We're so fucking lucky and the sooner everyone realizes this and stops dehumanizing people the sooner we evolve as a species. Fuck your human nature argument. I was born lucky and I realize it, and I'm thankful and sympathetic every single day. I have zero cut throAt survival of the fitest justifications, it's all motherfucking lottery of life flat out luck

[2 Chainz]

Fuck yah this thread is goin the way I was hoping, it's saterday night and I am already hammered. Richie oldgrey balls Eisler and I are way to an epic housE party right now, can't wai lt to sober up and indulge in these walls of text, it may be a fuckin roller lade message board but we are all young free thinking men who are going to change the world with our ideas, we shape and make the world and future, the more you realize this and
live your life by this creed, the better life gets for everyone. Fuck your piece of pie, share it you selfish cunts, your situation in life is a complete fluke thank your ancestors all you want but life is a lottery, realize this. All us are so fuckin lucky to not be born in Nigeria instead be born as middle income kids who have the oportunity to fullfil their dreams in a country with an abundance of it. We're so fucking lucky and the sooner everyone realizes this and stops dehumanizing people the sooner we evolve as a species. Fuck your human nature argument. I was born lucky and I realize it, and I'm thankful and sympathetic every single day. I have zero cut throAt survival of the fitest justifications, it's all motherfucking lottery of life flat out luck

Even though you can pin point the drunk in that haha,
this is full of truth.
That is exactly the spirit everyone should have, be thankful.

[Charlie Hustles]

The idea that humans can "outgrow nature" is the fundamental problem in the world today, the root cause of the destructive path that civilization has embarked upon since its onset.



The Eleventh Commandment (http://webpub.allegheny.edu/dept/envisci/ESInfo/comps/fortiet/caringforcreation.html)

"In the 1940s, long before the world's scientists began to speak of global climate change, Walter C. Lowdermilk, Chief of Research of the Soil Conservation Service, first argued the need for an eleventh commandment to have been delivered by Moses, one which would read:

'Thou shall inherit the holy earth as a faithful steward, conserving its resources and productivity from generation to generation. Thou shalt safeguard thy fields from soil erosion, thy living waters from drying up, thy forests from desolation, and protect thy hills from over-grazing by thy herds, so that thy descendants may have abundance forever. If any shall fail in this stewardship of the land thy fruitful fields shall become sterile stony ground and wasting gullies, and thy descendants shall decrease and live in poverty or be destroyed from off the face of the earth'.

While there was no such eleventh commandment delivered by Moses, the spirit of the commandment is found extensively throughout the Hebrew Scriptures and Jewish literature. The message is oft-repeated that responsible fulfillment of humankind's commitment to the environment will result in spiritual fulfillment, while neglect or destruction of the gift of Creation given to us will lead to human downfall. This message is an undeniable command for environmental action. "



And a far different perspective with a similar message . . .

“As soon as a name is given, the Godhead ceases to be Godhead. Man and Nature spring up and we get caught in a maze of abstract conceptual vocabulary.”

"Not to be bound by rules, but to be creating one's own rules — this is the kind of life which Zen is trying to have us live."

"Life, according to Zen, ought to be lived as a bird flies through the air, or as a fish swims in the water."

- D. T. Suzuki

[DanRine]

Theres a big difference between 'surviving' as in survival of the fittest and having more than you need because it makes you feel great.

Humans have evolved from 'have a kid by 16, keep kid alive till kid can fend for self , then die'.
So trying to justify our lives to nature is bullshit, we;ve outgrown nature and outgrown this idea of the strongest survives.

I'm with Hustles that we haven't and can never outgrow nature. Your first sentence was pretty on, then you contradicted yourself. Nature and instinct means more than fending for yourself. Animals who are not particularly well adapted for a completely independent life and therefore live in groups have strong family ties. A pack of wolves hunt together and feast together as a pack, rather than going off alone and trying to horde as much resources for themselves as possible. People are slow, weak, and not adapted for the solo life. We live in groups, so it is unnatural and even unethical to live principally for the purpose of self gratification and deny that empowering your family and community is just as important as empowering yourself.

This is a fundamental problem, as Hustles said. So many still believe that human progress means space travel and large hadron colliders and inventing robots that can clean your house and raise your kids. At this point in the evolution of humans, progress means unlearning the things we've learned about "civilized" society and structure, and re-learning the most basic principles of nature.

A good example would be the things we learn from Christopher Columbus. We think of Columbus's as a symbol of progress for mankind, but he actually wiped out a communal, sustainable society, for a society of competition, violence, and greed. So celebrating Columbus Day and praising him for discovering America is an archaic, primitive way of thinking. Studying the Indian tribes that he eradicated and trying to apply their principles to modern society is a much more progressive way of thinking.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

I'm with Hustles that we haven't and can never outgrow nature. Your first sentence was pretty on, then you contradicted yourself. Nature and instinct means more than fending for yourself. Animals who are not particularly well adapted for a completely independent life and therefore live in groups have strong family ties. A pack of wolves hunt together and feast together as a pack, rather than going off alone and trying to horde as much resources for themselves as possible. People are slow, weak, and not adapted for the solo life. We live in groups, so it is unnatural and even unethical to live principally for the purpose of self gratification and deny that empowering your family and community is just as important as empowering yourself.

Thers an invention called the world wide web which means people can live without actually being around people.

You can buy food, organize clothing, pay bills , watch tv and even fap without having to make human to human contact

[Charlie Hustles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrQVPeNxPxM&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErEDnGMO44.

[R-MONEY$$$]

This entire thread is cute, it is like a classroom full of passionate people arguing their points, completly ignorant to the lack of relevance in the real world.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

shtutp talking dolphin, im smarter than u!

[Charlie Hustles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV9Cfj_CQO0&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLl8bwMBL98&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnoMLVEw3tc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRN1Jjuk2G4&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL40SAPJI-w&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIYropJVGpg&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K742q7MdTc4&feature=related.

[2 Chainz]

I'm with Hustles that we haven't and can never outgrow nature. Your first sentence was pretty on, then you contradicted yourself. Nature and instinct means more than fending for yourself. Animals who are not particularly well adapted for a completely independent life and therefore live in groups have strong family ties. A pack of wolves hunt together and feast together as a pack, rather than going off alone and trying to horde as much resources for themselves as possible. People are slow, weak, and not adapted for the solo life. We live in groups, so it is unnatural and even unethical to live principally for the purpose of self gratification and deny that empowering your family and community is just as important as empowering yourself.

This is a fundamental problem, as Hustles said. So many still believe that human progress means space travel and large hadron colliders and inventing robots that can clean your house and raise your kids. At this point in the evolution of humans, progress means unlearning the things we've learned about "civilized" society and structure, and re-learning the most basic principles of nature.

A good example would be the things we learn from Christopher Columbus. We think of Columbus's as a symbol of progress for mankind, but he actually wiped out a communal, sustainable society, for a society of competition, violence, and greed. So celebrating Columbus Day and praising him for discovering America is an archaic, primitive way of thinking. Studying the Indian tribes that he eradicated and trying to apply their principles to modern society is a much more progressive way of thinking.

You seem to have the right idea, you just don't know the reality.
Welcome to reality my friend.

National Geographic : Your first paragraph is BULLSHIT (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100329-six-pack-mutant-trout-genetically-engineered-modified-gm/)
National Geographic : Tiny New Sea Species (Photo's (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/photogalleries/100421-new-fish-species-strange-greenland-pictures/#greenland-fish-longhead-dreamer-anglerfish_19300_600x450.jpg))
National Geographic : Tiny New Sea Species *1st Ever Video (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100418-coml-hardtosee-video/)*

It is this very species that is man-made. It thrives in water, therefore evolving faster.
It is on land, as well though.
We will have many mutated animals, insects, and marine life among us in the future, and we will have to fend for our selves.
How did this happen, you ask? Next generation dust, a certain nanotechnology that has been spread across the world through intentional or unintentional ways. A few worthy accusations have come into play.
as stated in the Z DAY 2010, "This is the point of technology itself"
It truly is, and he should know. How else would you get the entire world to command to your orders? Fear.
What does fear lead to?
Fear leads to control, in a sense that you will be taken care of indefinitely if you comply.

This is the same concept as our next terrorist attack, and the reason 911 conspiracies generated in the first place.
If we have one more terrorist attack, that's it, our constitutional rights will then be stripped,
and we will be forced into the same socialist world that the zeitgeist movement is trying to represent.

But the difference between the governments socialist motives, and the zeitgeist population control movement, is that population control was a well thought out plan. The only possible way to stop that well thought out of a plan is for the creator himself to stop it, or an extremely thorough and in-depth understanding of what is yet to come. I'm hoping for the 2nd one. We can do it.

This is what will ultimately cross the machine and human into one. It is then, when we must be worried about who has control over the world. It is those, and only those who have control in the world, that will be able to control these hideous creatures in the end through the technology that has been created.

The zeitgeist movement is a form of Population Control.
And only then, will he finally reach total control,
through the man and machine together as one,
as robots.

[DanRine]

This entire thread is cute, it is like a classroom full of passionate people arguing their points, completly ignorant to the lack of relevance in the real world.
Its ignorant to even say that these points lack relevance to the real world. We're talking about society and its most basic problems. My political beliefs and social ideals come from the philosophy and basic ethical beliefs that we're talking about here. All of my "real-world" problems are rooted in these primary issues. The reason I'm looking for a more social and communal place to live is because of the things we're talking about here and the deeply rooted problems with American society that bother me. Be-mag is actually really outdoing itself with this thread if you ask me. Saying that these issues have no relevance to the real world is just a way to detach yourself from these problems and ignore their existence.

[2 Chainz]

And after Population Control has succeeded,
will then be the fight between God and machine, life and science.
Basically everything Charlie said.

[DanRine]

You seem to have the right idea, you just don't know the reality.
Welcome to reality my friend.

National Geographic : Your first paragraph is BULLSHIT (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100329-six-pack-mutant-trout-genetically-engineered-modified-gm/)
National Geographic : Tiny New Sea Species (Photo's (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/photogalleries/100421-new-fish-species-strange-greenland-pictures/#greenland-fish-longhead-dreamer-anglerfish_19300_600x450.jpg))
National Geographic : Tiny New Sea Species *1st Ever Video (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100418-coml-hardtosee-video/)*

It is this very species that is man-made. It thrives in water, therefore evolving faster.
It is on land, as well though.
We will have many mutated animals, insects, and marine life among us in the future, and we will have to fend for our selves.
How did this happen, you ask? Next generation dust, a certain nanotechnology that has been spread across the world through intentional or unintentional ways. A few worthy accusations have come into play.
as stated in the Z DAY 2010, "This is the point of technology itself"
It truly is, and he should know. How else would you get the entire world to command to your orders? Fear.
What does fear lead to?
Fear leads to control, in a sense that you will be taken care of indefinitely if you comply.

This is the same concept as our next terrorist attack, and the reason 911 conspiracies generated in the first place.
If we have one more terrorist attack, that's it, our constitutional rights will then be stripped,
and we will be forced into the same socialist world that the zeitgeist movement is trying to represent.

But the difference between the governments socialist motives, and the zeitgeist population control movement, is that population control was a well thought out plan. The only possible way to stop that well thought out of a plan is for the creator himself to stop it, or an extremely thorough and in-depth understanding of what is yet to come. I'm hoping for the 2nd one. We can do it.

This is what will ultimately cross the machine and human into one. It is then, when we must be worried about who has control over the world. It is those, and only those who have control in the world, that will be able to control these hideous creatures in the end through the technology that has been created.

The zeitgeist movement is a form of Population Control.
And only then, will he finally reach total control,
through the man and machine together as one,
as robots.
I have no idea what the fuck you're saying but it seems "the reality" has something to do with genetically mutated trout, deep-sea fish, Zombies, terrorism, and the Zeitgeist films. Gotcha.. thanks for clearning that up.

[2 Chainz]

Saying that these issues have no relevance to the real world is just a way to detach yourself from these problems and ignore their existence.


I have no idea what the fuck you're saying but it seems "the reality" has something to do with genetically mutated trout, deep-sea fish, Zombies, terrorism, and the Zeitgeist films. Gotcha.. thanks for clearning that up.

It's quite simple, really...
You can choose to think deep,
or you can choose to think shallow.
It's your life, you decide.
The average brain can't comprehend this knowledge being real,
therefore automatically thinks crazy, and not real.
However, if you can get past the average way of thinking, you will find many answers.
and the be honest, it may be this very skill that could depend on it's own survival;
evolution of the human brain.

[2 Chainz]

When life no longer has rules,
you are defying the rules of life itself.
When things get perfect, life is near overdose;
never push the limit.
Unfortunately I pushed the limit once,
and there is no turning back.

You must remember,
no good will ever come from defying life's guidelines.
You must stay in contact with your origins,
otherwise you will be eternally unhappy.

That's what it all comes down to, defying life itself,
and unfortunately, it's being defied as we speak.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

You live a sad and pointless life if its nothing to you but a competition for resources. If life is about nothing but hording an abundance of resources for self gratification, then I have some sad news for you-- you're never gonna have enough. I have actually noticed that the ones complaining about this are the ones who think critically and ethically, and don't show a selfish sense of entitlement, and a need to justify why they shouldn't feel any obligation to share whatever wealth they are afforded with other people. I have had more than my share, and this mentality still pisses me off more than anything. The reason I want to leave the country is because selfishness is such a fundamental part of American culture that people like you actually try to philosophically justify selfishness and excessive consumption.


i have news for you, in the grand scheme of things, our lives are pointless. that doesn't mean we can't enjoy them but it does mean i'm not going to act like the typical 20 something douchebag who feels a need to constantly philosophize his existence the way many on here like to do.

i'm also not justifying excessive consumption because i don't like it but unlike you i'm not going to tell other people they can't do or get pissy when they do.


I have actually noticed that the ones complaining about this are the ones who think critically and ethically, and don't show a selfish sense of entitlement, and a need to justify why they shouldn't feel any obligation to share whatever wealth they are afforded with other people.typical moral and ethical superiority that people like you try to display. ironically, it's also people like you who usually have the sense of entitlement and people like me who don't. i don't want anything from anyone but of course you're the one who thinks people with the wealth should be sharing it. go ahead and move to europe and let me know how that philosophy is working in 20 years.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

That's a perfect example of the type of backward ass thinking I'm talking about. My ancestors killed the Native Americans, exploited African slaves and likewise, and now I'm "on top", if that's what you mean by my ancestors "doing something better" than the ancestors of less fortunate people. If you're on the bottom it's most likely because you or your ancestors were victims of people like my ancestors.

at the time i was thinking in smaller terms but yeah that's more or less right too. tell me how is that backwards thinking when it's completely true?



So is the future just a continued abuse and exploitation of certain people for the benefit of others, or is it possible to make the world an overall better place where people live better and don't hate each other so much? Isn't that the point of life-- to leave the world a little bit better place than if you never had lived? Oh wait no that's right the point of life is to horde resources.

well let's see, just about all of recorded history was like that, present times are like that, so i think it's safe to say the future will be like that too. but you're right, it doesn't have to be that way. you, dan rine, walking around everyday with your ipod and trendy progressive beliefs are going to change the world and make everyone see the light because you're special and you're different than the millions of people who came before and thought the exact same thing.

[Kevin K]

You guys would be surprised if you knew who they big players in the "population control" scheme. Hello Opera, hello Bill Gates.

They are so far ahead in this process and making huge gains.

David Rockefeller on population control:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8

[DanRine]

at the time i was thinking in smaller terms but yeah that's more or less right too. tell me how is that backwards thinking when it's completely true?

well let's see, just about all of recorded history was like that, present times are like that, so i think it's safe to say the future will be like that too. but you're right, it doesn't have to be that way. you, dan rine, walking around everyday with your ipod and trendy progressive beliefs are going to change the world and make everyone see the light because you're special and you're different than the millions of people who came before and thought the exact same thing.

We are on opposite ends of the intellectual or philosophical spectrum or whatever you want to call it. I never said I was going to change the world, just have a positive impact, make my life worth something to more people than just myself-- it's not that hard. You, on the other hand, accept the status quo and deny the idea that there is any chance for progress or a solution, and therefore feel no obligation to have any sort of positive impact on society. You act like you know me, or "my type" so well, but I can assure you you don't. All I can tell you is that you and I will live very different lives.

[jakeness13]

This is the most wall of texts if ever seen in one thread.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

....

http://cdn.adamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/wall-of-text.jpg

[R-MONEY$$$]

Its ignorant to even say that these points lack relevance to the real world. We're talking about society and its most basic problems. My political beliefs and social ideals come from the philosophy and basic ethical beliefs that we're talking about here. All of my "real-world" problems are rooted in these primary issues. The reason I'm looking for a more social and communal place to live is because of the things we're talking about here and the deeply rooted problems with American society that bother me. Be-mag is actually really outdoing itself with this thread if you ask me. Saying that these issues have no relevance to the real world is just a way to detach yourself from these problems and ignore their existence.

People are lead astray by considering these problems. The only way to make the world a better place is to take responsibility for yourself, lead by example and allocate the resources that you can afford towards causes you believe in. Anything else is coffee shop BS.

Look Dan, I really appreciate your social concerns and have learned a lot from you debating over the years and I think that you leaving the country would be a very selfish act because you do have a message to share, but you have to develop the means to gain the resources to allocate towards sharing that message. Get to work my friend.

[2 Chainz]

We are on opposite ends of the intellectual or philosophical spectrum or whatever you want to call it. I never said I was going to change the world, just have a positive impact, make my life worth something to more people than just myself-- it's not that hard. You, on the other hand, accept the status quo and deny the idea that there is any chance for progress or a solution, and therefore feel no obligation to have any sort of positive impact on society. You act like you know me, or "my type" so well, but I can assure you you don't. All I can tell you is that you and I will live very different lives.

These are the two types of people in the end.
But which one is better?
I have a major conflict with this.

The one that won't defy nature itself,
and live God's path of eternal happiness?
Or save itself, and move onto the man-machine era?

This, and only then,
will we see if there is a god watching over us.

The one's that did the right thing shall perish into never ending peace,
and the others will go on the see the darkest side of humanity ever in-visioned.

I think I will 'FIGHT.'

[UnknownPleasures]

Stop drinking that syrup.

[2 Chainz]

Stop drinking that syrup.

dawg i wish i had about a pint of syrup...
that's the only thing that could calm me down right now
from all the things i've learned in the past week.
most sober week of my life. weird, huh?
jail and death will make you realize what's important in life.
i suggest you do the same before it's too late.

[K]

You conservatives are "polishing the brass on the titanic, it's all going down"(fight club)

[randy lahey]

"When the oppressed, the downtrodden, the conquered say to each other, with the
vengeful cunning of the powerless, “Let us be different from evil people, namely,
good! And that man is good who does not overpower, who hurts no one, who does not
attack, who does not retaliate, who hands revenge over to God, who keeps himself
hidden, as we do, who avoids all evil and demands little from life in general—like us,
the patient, humble, and upright”—what that amounts to, coolly expressed and
without bias, is essentially nothing more than “We weak people are merely weak. It’s
good if we do nothing, because we are not strong enough.” "

"The subject (or, to use a more popular style,
the soul) has up to now probably been the best principle for belief on earth, because,
for the majority of the dying, the weak, and the downtrodden of all sorts, it makes
possible that sublime self-deception which establishes weakness itself as freedom and
their being like this or that as something meritorious. "
- Essay 1, Genealogy of Morals

I really enjoyed this thread until this last page, it definitely "jumped the shark" so to speak.
But yeah, R-Money pretty much speaks the truth.


my drunken predictions of the future:

China will develop a way of harnessing renewable energy, and we will have implemented their technology fully by 2050. 65% of the world's energy use will be renewable, though industrializing nations will still use coal. The environment will be a non-issue; some species might die from their habitat changing but we will innovate through the crisis.

Water tables will fall dramatically by 2030; China and India in particular will deal with water scarcity and grain famine due to irreversibly low water tables. Tremendous pressure will be put on the US as a grain exporter, and food prices will rise to unprecedented levels.

Besides food, population growth will be the biggest constraint on sustainability. Economic development will lead to falling birth rates around the globe, but China and India will still have to deal with the bulges in population from their industrial revolutions. The wealthy in India will be having fewer children, but the country will still be expanding at a tremendous rate. Many governments will put in legal maximum limits on child bearing a la China to alleviate pressure on water resources. But the biggest factor in stabilizing birth rates will be global economic interdependence and further division of labor.

Wages in the US will continue to fall for all workers, though owners of capital will benefit from the surplus of cheap labor across the globe. As education rates rise in China, India, and other sources of abundant labor, many in America will lose their jobs due to their inability to compete with overseas wages. Transaction costs of hiring foreign workers will fall in even non arms-length industries. US middle-class workers will be relocated to the service industry with a lower wage, and the disparity between the top 1% and the rest of the country will rise.

Africa will be the new source of cheap labor, and the Chinese will be responsible for their 'colonization' and development.
Goods to the US consumer will be even cheaper than now, and the minimum wage worker will be, in absolute terms, better off than now.

[2 Chainz]

You present a great point, and I agree.
But everything you're presenting is from the 2000's-2050's,
it is the 3,000's that I am talking about.

I know pretty much everyone thinks i'm crazy at this point,
but there might be at least 1 or 2 people that understand,
and that is well worth it.

[Garett]

Fuck I made this post friday evening and have been out all weekend, I'll be on reading and watching everything asap, I'm glad this has turned into an intelligent debate.

[*ROYALwithCHEESE*]

thats a mighty butt chin!

[Red Rider]

First let me just say this thread has been a great read. While I don't really have any strong opinions on the subject, I might as well post my thoughts as they come to contribute as well and keep the discussion going.


My ancestors killed the Native Americans, exploited African slaves and likewise, and now I'm "on top", if that's what you mean by my ancestors "doing something better" than the ancestors of less fortunate people.
I see his logic by saying your ancestors did do something better. Obviously not in the moral sense, but in the technological sense. It was the Europeans who created metal armor, swords, muskets. It was the Europeans who found ways to reach unreachable lands. Why was it them who were able to develop this technology and who's to say if the Native Americans or the Africans had this technology instead that things would have still been the same?

[DanRine]

First let me just say this thread has been a great read. While I don't really have any strong opinions on the subject, I might as well post my thoughts as they come to contribute as well and keep the discussion going.


I see his logic by saying your ancestors did do something better. Obviously not in the moral sense, but in the technological sense. It was the Europeans who created metal armor, swords, muskets. It was the Europeans who found ways to reach unreachable lands. Why was it them who were able to develop this technology and who's to say if the Native Americans or the Africans had this technology instead that things would have still been the same?

Columbus noted how naive and defenseless the natives were, and he wrote about their generosity and eagerness to share and trade things with him.. then he took a few of them captive, stole some of their shit, and you know the rest. Sure he became a rich and famous man.. he also planted the seed of the country's worst problems, the violence, racial superiority, class warfare, etc.. and most people with a brain and a heart remember him as a fucking asshole.

I prefer not to talk about "what-ifs" because really what good are they.. better to think about the facts. My theory of what would have happened if people from a different place and culture landed here first doesn't matter.

Getting off of that tangent, everything you need to know about anything you can learn from these buffalo--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

[DanRine]

People are lead astray by considering these problems. The only way to make the world a better place is to take responsibility for yourself, lead by example and allocate the resources that you can afford towards causes you believe in. Anything else is coffee shop BS.

Look Dan, I really appreciate your social concerns and have learned a lot from you debating over the years and I think that you leaving the country would be a very selfish act because you do have a message to share, but you have to develop the means to gain the resources to allocate towards sharing that message. Get to work my friend.

I appreciate your advice, but don't worry about me... I don't work at a bar anymore, I'm graduating in two weeks, and I'm leaving the country to teach English so I can make money, learn things, and improve the lives of my students in that small way. When I have money and more knowledge of the world I'll return to see what I can do to make something of myself in America. You seem to make a lot of money and enjoy showing others how to do the same-- that's a good life and a positive impact on society. Seperatists, leading by example, that is all philosophy as well, and pretty dead on if you ask me. Over the years I've realized that our minds aren't so different, you just seem to like money more than me. I remember you saying something like "might as well make a lot of money before you die," but the "might as well" is key there.. if you said that the point of life is to make lots of money before you die, then I would disagree.

[salomonskater]

Theres a big difference between 'surviving' as in survival of the fittest and having more than you need because it makes you feel great.


QFT