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    $1.99 For the new Dalnas edit.

    Currently downloading.

    https://sellfy.com/p/IHF8/


    How pissed are all you bozos?
    HËLLAHËLLA

    #2
    Definitely won't be paying for that!

    Comment


      #3
      I fux wit dat

      Comment


        #4
        Will fux with dis

        Comment


          #5
          Could have been $2.99

          In before:

          -blatant advertisement
          -dslr only
          -glidecam
          -no music rights
          -film filter
          -topside x

          I really like the direction Sam is going and he had some great angles/ cutaways. Hope the sponsors paid for the advertising spots.

          That being said here are a few of my concerns. At $1.99 paypal will take $.35 and an additional $.053 cents. Sellfy takes $.0995 cents. The net from selling this part (let's not call them edits, they are profiles, or online sections) $1.4875

          $1.4875 split evenly is $.74375 per person (assuming an even split).

          I don't think that there are music licensing costs or graphic design/ motion design fees so the only real overhead is the plane/ train tickets and gas money. For that I would assume no less than $300 on the LOW end of things. The first 201 downloads would go to paying off the $300 (low end cost) of the profile. The rest would then be profit. Assume for 2,000 downloads and there is a profit coming off of 1,799 at $.74375 per person for a total of $1,338 a piece. That's nothing to scoff at. Fair chunk of change for a handful of sessions. Also assuming for the sponsors featured in the opening that their are bonus/ incentives/ set money for the project that makes it even more worth it.

          This download number is generous as the Broskow edit from 10 days in New York has 1,105 downloads to date, but I have been led to believe Bolino has over 1,600 downloads already and KCMO a full length blade video for $10 cracked 2,000.

          What I am setting up/ asking in this post is why undermine the value of online parts by selling them so cheap (Dalnas/ KCMO/ Drought)?

          The thing I am interested in is if the community as a whole who are willing to pay for online content is X (call it 2,000) of Y (call the overall community 20,000 for an even 10%) then what price for a section Z would result in lower numbers of downloads D and less profit?

          If 2,000 kids would by this part
          $1.99 - $.405 to paypal - $.0995 to sellfy - $1.4875 profit for a total of $2,975

          $2.99 - $.43 to paypal - $.14 to sellfy - $2.42 profit for a total of $4,840

          If only 1,229 kids downloaded it at $2.99 it would still break even with 2,000 kids at the $1.99 price.

          Would there really be a loss of 38% of your target audience of a dollar? What about $2 more dollars?

          I'm increasingly of the opinion that people who are buying sections online wish to support skaters they like enjoy watching and wish to continue doing what they love. I don't think that discounting a good part to $1.99 will increase sales because I think the market for the individual skater is already set, like in Franky's case. $9 wasn't a deterrent for his fans despite the amount of free online parts he has (similar to Broskow and Dalnas). So what in reality are people basing their pricing structure on?

          Sam, I don't know if you will read this and I'll be sending you an email along with others about issues like these, but if you do read this, how did you come up with $1.99? Also, good work, it was worth every penny.

          Sorry for all the numbers, I am just very interested in the opinions of the community who chooses to post online.

          AJ

          Comment


            #6
            Seriously, at $3.99 the net is $3.34 and would only need to sell 890 downloads as opposed to 2,000 to reach the same mark.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Vibralux Denim View Post
              This download number is generous as the Broskow edit from 10 days in New York has 1,105 downloads to date, but I have been led to believe Bolino has over 1,600 downloads already and KCMO a full length blade video for $10 cracked 2,000.
              interesting...

              ps. not buying this.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by toe-bee View Post
                interesting...

                ps. not buying this.

                Comment


                  #9
                  For what it's worth i'll give my opinion. I would pay to watch a full length feature such as KCMO, which I did, but I won't pay for online edits. I don't consider them profiles as they're completely out of context and are essentially adverts.

                  I think this idea of paying for content still needs to be worked out.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vibralux Denim View Post
                    I don't think that discounting a good part to $1.99 will increase sales because I think the market for the individual skater is already set, like in Franky's case. $9 wasn't a deterrent for his fans despite the amount of free online parts he has (similar to Broskow and Dalnas).
                    Definitely disagree here. Everyone has their own sense of product worth, and whether a particular item falls above or below that line will determine if an individual buys it. Taking your example- I love Franky's skating and consider myself a Franky "fan" however I didn't buy the section, solely because of price. For me, $9 is not worth it for a section, whereas I would have paid a smaller amount for it. Lower prices will bring in more purchases, higher prices will have more return per purchase, and somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot which is the most profitable. This spot will vary from skater to skater, filmmaker to filmmaker, and a number of other factors, so there is no right answer here. Each case is different and there is no magic number.

                    That being said, I bought it and thought Sam and Jeff did a great job, and it was well worth my $2.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Finally a price point I can agree with for an edit.

                      I think Jeff made the right call with $1,99, though $2,99 would also still be within what I consider reason. He puts out tons of content anyway, and if he doesn't make big bucks off of one section, whatever he makes will motivate him to go even bigger next time.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Vibralux Denim View Post

                        Sam, I don't know if you will read this and I'll be sending you an email along with others about issues like these, but if you do read this, how did you come up with $1.99? Also, good work, it was worth every penny.
                        Cartel in the making? Rollerblade edit price fixing?

                        Discuss.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by AJ Pow View Post
                          Definitely disagree here. Everyone has their own sense of product worth, and whether a particular item falls above or below that line will determine if an individual buys it. Taking your example- I love Franky's skating and consider myself a Franky "fan" however I didn't buy the section, solely because of price. For me, $9 is not worth it for a section, whereas I would have paid a smaller amount for it. Lower prices will bring in more purchases, higher prices will have more return per purchase, and somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot which is the most profitable. This spot will vary from skater to skater, filmmaker to filmmaker, and a number of other factors, so there is no right answer here. Each case is different and there is no magic number.

                          That being said, I bought it and thought Sam and Jeff did a great job, and it was well worth my $2.
                          This is the thing, that section was worth more than $1.99 Now the question will come in that silly people on the internet will use this price point section as fodder for their accusations that another part is priced too high. "Dalnas part was $1.99 and he had bangers, etc." My $.02.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Quark View Post
                            Cartel in the making? Rollerblade edit price fixing?

                            Discuss.
                            No, I think an exchange of numbers, ideas, etc. behind the creators of content and the skaters is important. How else can we better educate the people putting this stuff out than having complete transparency. I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Better figure out what works and what doesn't. Lot's of people are making guesses, and I would rather make educated guesses.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Vibralux Denim View Post
                              This is the thing, that section was worth more than $1.99 Now the question will come in that silly people on the internet will use this price point section as fodder for their accusations that another part is priced too high. "Dalnas part was $1.99 and he had bangers, etc." My $.02.
                              KCMO already did that. Sean came out with an incredible full video for a fair price and made what must be the most profitable skate video in a long time.

                              Then Shima and later Franky went overboard. And besides your Broskow edit (where the talent justified the price to a large extent), that's the state of current affairs.

                              It's worth as much as Jeff says it's worth. And if that's $2,00, that's all gravy for him and the people that like to watch him skate.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Quark View Post
                                KCMO already did that. Sean came out with an incredible full video for a fair price and made what must be the most profitable skate video in a long time.

                                Then Shima and later Franky went overboard. And besides your Broskow edit (where the talent justified the price to a large extent), that's the state of current affairs.

                                It's worth as much as Jeff says it's worth. And if that's $2,00, that's all gravy for him and the people that like to watch him skate.
                                It isn't all gravy like that. KCMO should have been $20 like a normal video, I understand their is no disc, but there is also instant gratification and no shipping costs.

                                Jeff and Sam have already came out and said they wanted to charge more, but they were testing the waters to see how it sells. Sharing numbers and mailing lists gives an overall idea of people supporting content. If it's the same 2,000 emails purchasing then we have a set group, if it varies wildly based on the profiled skater then I would infer that pricing/ marketing can do a lot to develop sales to different customers.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Added instead of edited:

                                  I base what a section is worth on what I used to pay for a DVD.

                                  If I buy a full length video on a disc, I wouldn't mind paying € 30 or sometimes even more. But that price accounts for production, distribution, and third parties such as shops that get a take. If I am buying a video directly from the producer who does not have that kind of overhead to jack up the price, what am I paying for, at $ 2 per minute of skating? It doesn't cost him anything to distribute (besides the payment portal charges).
                                  Last edited by Quark; 03.09.2014, 15:41.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Quark, the reason people used to not get paid at all, or not well at least, for skating in videos was because those costs you talk about. It isn't artificially escalating the price to charge $20 for a full video. It enables the producer to better pay the people who were involved in the making of the project.

                                    If you take the upcoming release of F33T for example.

                                    Rob G
                                    Farmer
                                    Obe
                                    Sizemore
                                    Victor
                                    Schwab

                                    Lonnie

                                    That's a lot of people to pay and a lot of overhead. If you charge $10 (because a skateshop isn't involved) then an even cut to all parties involved is $8.88 after portal fees/ 7 that is $1.26 per person IF there is no overhead on a full length video. Got to imagine driving around california, renting a RED in NY and flying to NY is expensive. Even if the expenses only bring their individual cut to $1.00 a piece is $2,000 profit for skating in a full length skate video enough? Is it worth Lonnie spending month of his spare time filming and editing to make $2,000 when I am sure his day rate at his job is somewhere between $250- $500?

                                    The answer is no. Double that or even selling if for $25 is worth it so that everyone involved can keep making dope shit and the content will get better because of it.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I think it's a good price, but I don't really like Dalnas' skating so I'm not buying.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Stoked that the pay per edit thing is catching on and spreading.

                                        Topside X tho..... The gap made up for that transgression tho.
                                        HËLLAHËLLA

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          i think we need to stop asking the very small pond of the same rollerbladers to keep buying edits. Instead we need to focus on how to make the pond bigger and ad more fish. If rollerblade companies worried about growth, the issues of pros being paid could take care of its self. Cant think of the last demo within 200 miles of me.... they used to happen a few times a year.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Regardless of costs, some bladers are worth more than others and some sections are worth more than others.

                                            Dvds were £20 in the uk. Dvd duplication was always basic (black case, no insert, basic sleeve) so duplication came to about £1-£2. Shipping was extra and obviously distribution costed. I don't see why an online vid would be the same cost and there are ways to sell without having the same digital overheads.

                                            Kcmo seemed decent for 10. I'd have gone higher. Broskow for 6 was probably the top end. I loved that edit.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by greg is cool View Post
                                              i think we need to stop asking the very small pond of the same rollerbladers to keep buying edits. Instead we need to focus on how to make the pond bigger and ad more fish. If rollerblade companies worried about growth, the issues of pros being paid could take care of its self. Cant think of the last demo within 200 miles of me.... they used to happen a few times a year.
                                              Yep, companies used to throw money away on demos and have the size of the pond shrink. Don't know how many tours I went on where thousands of dollars a stop were spent to do demos. Let's not be nostalgic for how things used to be done, because clearly how things used to be done didn't amount to much of anything in the end other than where we currently are.

                                              Pay for edits give you the ability to travel further/ do more because you know there is a return on investment that will enable you to continue to do these types of projects. What sense is throwing money at demos when there is little guarantee that who you are demoing for will a. decide to skate b. decide to skate your brands gear c. continue to skate in 1-5 years.

                                              You work in porn right greg? There are people who give away content and then people who charge. Once you have given enough away for free you should get some additional compensation in return. None of the people charging for edits have exclusively charged for edits their whole career. There is still plenty of great free skating out there for people to watch. I heard people still love Broskow's KFC 2/3 part and Farmer from Words.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by DanielBond View Post
                                                Regardless of costs, some bladers are worth more than others and some sections are worth more than others.

                                                Dvds were £20 in the uk. Dvd duplication was always basic (black case, no insert, basic sleeve) so duplication came to about £1-£2. Shipping was extra and obviously distribution costed. I don't see why an online vid would be the same cost and there are ways to sell without having the same digital overheads.

                                                Kcmo seemed decent for 10. I'd have gone higher. Broskow for 6 was probably the top end. I loved that edit.
                                                Broskow was $3.99

                                                Charging more enables the producer to pay the skaters. Maintaining the same costs as before enables the redistribution of funds from what was traditionally skate shops, duplicators, post masters, and printers to the skater, producer, and a future budget for productions.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Broskow was 4, you're right obviously! It was awesome. Happy to pay it.

                                                  I'm a fan of pay edits but unfortunately some bladers are worth more. I've bought a lot of content this year. I kinda prefer whole videos but good sections are great.

                                                  No offence intended, but do you think the kfc series would have sold as well without broskow? In the video days the big names sold the videos. Who would have bought AIR without farmers section?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by DanielBond View Post
                                                    No offence intended, but do you think the kfc series would have sold as well without broskow? In the video days the big names sold the videos. Who would have bought AIR without farmers section?
                                                    None taken at all, I've gone on the record plenty of times stating just that fact. I am far from the top videographer or editor in rollerblading, not even close. What I am is dumb enough to keep throwing money into a leaking ship. There aren't too many people who stuck around for the labor of love. I wish some of the visionary people that still give us nostalgia boners hadn't dipped out for a paycheck and a lifestyle upgrade, but that isn't the case.

                                                    However, we are stuck with who we are stuck with and as someone who is trying to make things work I am looking to gather feedback, have discussions, and create something that the community as a whole wants to support.

                                                    Unfortunately I believe you will see far more single parts being released online for money than full videos. Full videos take a long time to make, injuries happen, and there is nothing worse than having one skaters footage sitting on ice getting cold because another featured skater got hurt and hasn't finished their section yet and is keeping the release held up.

                                                    Just look how long KCMO was filmed for. Almost 2 years. That is a long monetary investment. If they had been traveling around the country or even world it would be unrealistic to expect Sean to have $10-20k out on the line waiting for everyone to finish up. Skating doesn't have that kind of money anymore.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by bladearchive
                                                      I don't believe 1.99 to be a discounted price, especially when it's just a summer edit. If you compare it with Shima and Franky, then sure that's discounted. But I will question anyone who thinks 8 bucks for an edit is fair, no matter how much free content you put out. That's you're fault for spoiling us with infinite franky edits, then expecting us to pay 8 bucks for the same thing. the innovation just isn't there.

                                                      People pay for videos because it's an experience by itself. You don't get that feeling from an edit, especially in todays world with youtube, vimeo, and um me

                                                      The idea behind Shima's 666 video is cool, but it's also complete bullshit. He force feeds you 2-3 minutes of advertisements in the beginning and ending of EVERY edit. and those advertisements will only be seen by people who already supported.


                                                      If you're worried about fees. Why are you still using selify? Why are you using Paypal? Those may be the most popular options, but they're not the only tools you have.

                                                      All great points that are being addressed. I am not worried about the fees, I am not worried about the overhead of making the videos. If I have to spend $5,000 to film the next Haffey part I will because I believe in the project and at the end of the day that will be accounted for. The point of acknowledging the fees is for transparencies sake and to educate the consumer.

                                                      Example. I myself used to get mad at Andy Waggoner at Razors for paying shitty royalties on skates. I would base how shiity the royalties were off of reverse math. $300 for a Murder skate in store, Andy is probably wholesaling it for $150 or more, and I would reason the cost of the skate to be $75 with a $75 profit. I would take the salary he paid mike annually plus the royalty and divide it into that margin to get the percentage of what Mike was making annually off of what his name was DIRECTLY selling. Sure his image was helping to sell G2's etc. but those were his skates with his name on them. To this date I don't trust the transparency of a lot of companies in skating. Nobody shares numbers, margins, etc. at least not that I am aware of, and when I first thought about the idea of a pro tax (an additional $5 cost to a pair of pro skates through licensed stores that went directly to skaters) I was laughed out of the room. Think about that though. $5 on top of the royalty you were already getting. Back when skates used to sell 1,500 pairs, or even further back when they sold more (think Shima 2). That's a lot of extra dough that would have kept people putting out free content. Best yet it didn't come out of anyone's cut, it was an ADDITIONAL $5. Skate company happy, shop happy.

                                                      We can go round and round all day on this and I look forward to more critical feedback. Thanks to all who have been involved so far. I truly do appreciate the posts.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        I dig that you're actually on hear discussing shit with us AJ. I wish more big players would come on here and talk about the industry

                                                        https://www.instagram.com/instalesszeke/

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          I'm gonna catch a lot of shit for this one but fuck it.

                                                          The idea of an online part being sold is a fantastic idea. Skateboarders have been doing it for a few years now and usually sell anywhere between 4-10 dollars depending on the person, outlet or company. I myself have purchased a few skate videos this way (stay gold for instance) stay gold was a heavily anticipated skateboard video for maybe 4-5 years and dropped on I tunes for somewhere around 11 dollars for a 60 minute video. Fantastic production and overall well worth my 11 dollars. These dudes spent 4 years skated some of the raddest things and had a huge variety of footage.


                                                          Ok ok it is skateboarding they have "more money" to do things and travel and production but cut the shit. It comes down to work and drive. If you wanted to make something extremely epic you don't need a backing of people or company to fly you out you need you and a reliable filmer which sadly a lot of people in rollerblading still are complete shit at doing even with technology almost doing it for you.

                                                          What I'm getting to is everyone in blading seems to be running to this idea to make a quick buck before it's too late. Not to offend anyone who's released parts for money but if I am paying money to watch you skate it better be something a hell of a lot better than what I can search your name for on YouTube or Vimeo. I find it even more disrespectful to see edits that are filmed in like a week or a month even. Why the fuck should I pay someone just because they "got" a bunch of tricks on film quickly. There's no vision in that. You're basically paying for some assholes spring and summer clips of the year. Awesome that's definitely the equivalent of a video part. Definitely should be shelling my cash out to you dudes.

                                                          Props to the people who made some dough off this format and even smarter when you upload the same pay section months later and get the views anyway but it's pretty pathetic especially when the content is not up to par at all.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            i'm interested why you think KCMO is worth $20. Aside from the time spent filming, which is totally up to SK how long to wait, when to cut people off, etc (it IS his project, after all) the video is really only worth $12: $4 for farmer, $4 for Broskow, and $4 combined for the kelso bros. the rest should be free because it's nothing that your regular hometown hero can't do - and why should we pay for that? (just my $.02)

                                                            I didn't buy the Dalnas edit, and won't buy it because I don't like certain aspects of his blading (not going into detail, we don't need another joey chase bitch-fest), but $1.99 is perfect for a pro's summer edit. and i totally disagree with the idea that the money should be split 50/50 between the blader and filmed/editor. i understand that it takes a lot of time to film and edit - trust me, i worked for over a year on one person's edit - but without the blader, there is nothing to film or edit, and the blader should get more of the cut. even if it's just 60/40 or 65/35. also, when is the last time someone broke their arm or leg or cracked their head open while filming? blader takes the risk, blader is the one literally creating the content (TRICKS), blader is the one who should take away the larger portion of money.

                                                            i'll never pay $5 for a single edit by a single blader, unless it's Haffey/Broskow/Farmer/Richie, and who makes the edit really doesn't matter to me - i only care about the tricks, and i've only ever cared about the tricks. if your tricks suck, the edit should be free or never made in the first place. if you have a few tricks that are hard, charge a buck. if you are doing stuff that only other pros can do, charge a few bucks. if you're doing shit that nobody else can do, charge $5 - the only people doing shit other people can't do are haffey/farmer/richie(EVERYTHING SWITCH)/broskow(sometimes)
                                                            Last edited by Apsley Cherry-Garrard; 03.09.2014, 17:38.


                                                            "Do you feel that Randy? The way the shit clings to the air? Shit blizzard."

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