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Wishful thinking (savannah can of worms)

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    Wishful thinking (savannah can of worms)

    be-mag & be-lurkers, I just sat down and typed this up real quickly. Sorry if it's a bit muddled, but I think if you read carefully you can see the point.

    I know this is opening a can of worms on an old topic, but I'm hoping to open this can so that we can finally close it for good. If you can't be bothered to read it all then skip to the last couple of paragraphs.

    Grinding is a major aspect of rollerblading. It is one of our most diverse trick categories because of all the possibilities, and learning to grind is a goal for most newcomers. Every grind has a specific name for a specific foot placement. There is only one foot placement in rollerblading that has no name: the foot placement incorrectly dubbed “alleyoop unity.” This has been perpetuated by magazines and professionals since Billy started doing them on anything and everything. However, the current definition of a Savannah (270 backside alleyoop unity) is not even correct. We have a grind that even our professionals cannot accurately describe to anyone because from the very beginning the definition has been incorrect. The grind known as “Alleyoop Unity” needs to be known as front Savannah, and the working definition for the real Savannah should be “270 backside alleyoop savannah” and not as “270 Alleyoop backside unity” because that is an entirely different trick. Please, read on with an open mind, and PLEASE think critically.

    How long you've been blading shouldn't matter for this argument. If you still believe that being good at rollerblading makes your opinion about something more valid then you can stop reading right now. If you think that “Alleyoop” means a backwards grind then you're wrong.

    First, in order to take part in the discussion we need to agree that the terms “alleyoop” “truespin” and “zero spin” DO NOT have anything to do with grinding. THEY ARE AIR/SPIN TERMS ONLY. You can do a soul, zero spin soul, ao soul, or true soul: the soul refers to the foot positions, the “zero/ao/true” refers to the spin into that foot position. Got it? You really need to understand that to have the savannah discussion. Also, the whole “spin” + “grind” naming system that we’ve used forever does in fact mean that you can do truespin or alleyoop H-block tricks. Which way did you spin? How did your feet land? Then that’s the name of the trick. Did you cross your feet one way on one trick and cross them the opposite on the next? That DOESN’T make the second on alleyoop - it makes the second one a different trick name altogether… a name we don’t have because of a combination name for another trick (I’m calling Billy’s “savannah” a combination name because it refers to a new foot placement but it also implies a spin - something no other grind name has ever done to this extent).

    We all know what a unity is. Roll up to a curb that is on your left side, jump in the air (technically turning an alleyoop 90) and land with your left foot crossed in front (closer to the curb) of your right. If you wanted to be REALLY picky, you could call that trick right there an “alleyoop unity” because you spun alleyoop for a quarter turn. But we don’t do that, we just call it a unity. Here is the problem. WE HAVE NO NAME for the same exact trick with the feet crossed the other way. It IS NOT alleyoop unity - like I just said, a regular unity is technically an alleyoop unity. How about backside? Roll up to the ledge on your left, jump on backside with your right foot crossed over your left - backside unity (we leave out that 90-degree truespin, just like we leave out the 90-degree alleyoop on our frontside unity). Again, if you do the same trick with legs crossed the other way we have no name for that trick. Some people call it “backside ao unity” even though you spin a quarter true spin into it. So that makes absolutely no sense to call that a backside ao unity.

    The problem started with the naming of the “real” savannah. A real savannah is when you roll up to a ledge, do an alleyoop 270 and land with your feet in some position. Unfortunately, we don’t have a name for that foot position. People then and now think that Savannah = 270 Ao Back Unity. However, just look at your feet position. Are you in unity? No. You are not. You are in an unnamed foot position.

    Think of that trick Haffey crushes on everything. I’m going to call it by it’s real name. It’s called “true front savannah” and he did it on the drop ledge at Burbank and a couple times in his F33T and VX VOD profiles. If you call that trick “true front unity” as many people do, then what do you call Ivan Narez’s ACTUAL true front unity from the Hyphy videos? Why would you call Haffey’s trick a true front unity when he feet are in the opposite of a unity position? Why would you call a real Savannah “270 ao back unity” when your feet aren’t in a back unity position? REMEMBER, “alleyoop” is not a grind word, it’s a spin word.

    If there is only one reason we should call the foot position “savannah” it’s to do Billy justice by being able to describe the trick. If I walked up to Broskow or Farmer and asked them what a Savannah is, they would both tell me “270 ao back unity” and if I went and did that trick (think JC Rowe’s favorite trick - a real 270 ao back unity) they would say “no, cross your legs the other way.” I would reply, “but you said 270 ao back unity. I did a 270 ao spin, and I landed in back unity.” Then they’d say, “no, cross your feet the other way” because that’s all they could say. We don't even have a name for the foot position they are trying to describe. We don't say True top Ao Torque Soul, we say True Top Soyale. We don't say Ao Backslide, we say Front Torque. Why are we saying AO Unity? There is already a grind that uses the foot stance and it is called Savannah, it just happens to have an implied 270 AO spin into it. If there is already a grind using that foot stance, then let's just use that name for any time we use that foot stance.

    270 Ao Back Unity = a trick JC Rowe did all the time, every section. looks exactly like 360 acid.
    270 Ao Back Savannah (aka: Savannah) = a trick Billy Prislin owned that for some reason was the only grind to ever incorporate a spin more than 90 AND a new foot position with just a single name. Looks exactly like ao top porn. Its proper name is: Savannah (the 270 AO backside is implied)
    Truespin unity = a trick Ivan does in Hyphy3 that looks exactly like hurricane top acid
    Truespin Savannah = a trick Haffey crushes on everything that looks exactly like true porn.
    unity= a trick we all learn pretty quickly (there is an implied 90 degree ao turn in all of our frontside h block tricks that is implied because it would complicate things, just like saying "ao unity" does)
    savannah = opposite foot position from unity.

    A savannah isn’t a 270 ao back unity, a savannah is a 270 ao back savannah. The feet are placed differently.

    There needs to be a name for that foot position. The name should be savannah so it fits with the original “real savannah” but so that we can also differentiate between a unity and a savannah. They are absolutely different foot positions and absolutely need different names. "Alleyoop" won't work, because "alleyoop" has never and will never describe a foot position - only a spin direction.

    Last edited by Apsley Cherry-Garrard; 24.05.2015, 16:06.

    "Do you feel that Randy? The way the shit clings to the air? Shit blizzard."

    It IS NOT alleyoop unity
    It is.



      you can't Alleyopp a h block trick.



        What the fuck is all this?





            Savannah up the rail



              Savannah Porn Star


                I made it about six lines until I scrolled down to look at tit pictures only to find there was none

                At least ther was an arlo picture


                  I've always considered a savannah the "opposite" of a unity. I agree with you in the fact that this "unnamed trick" is not unnamed. It's a savannah.

                  However, are we just disregarding frontside and backside as designations for h-block tricks?

                  It's not a truespin savannah, it's a backside savannah. Treat it the same way you would a royale. If you approach an obstacle that is on your right side, spin 450 degrees to the left and land in a royale, what is this grind called? Is it a 450 truespin royale? No, it's a 450 backside royale. Treat unity and sav the same way.


                    ^I completely agree. Which part of my rant came off differently? The part where I was talking about back sav and how people call it true back unity? yea, they are stupid. if you roll up and do a back sav, it's back sav. if you do 450 back sav, its 450 back sav. if you do front sav, its front sav. The only one that should be different is if you do a "Savannah" and that should ALWAYS be known as 270 AO Back Sav (right now it's known as 270 AO Back Unity, which is 100% incorrect).

                    Thank you for grasping the idea of an unnamed (yet already named) foot position!

                    EDIT: the only time something should be called Truespin Savannah is when you do what Haffey does: do a truespin and land in front Sav. like he does in F33t, VX VOD, and Fade Nation (think True Porn)
                    Last edited by Apsley Cherry-Garrard; 25.05.2015, 14:38.

                    "Do you feel that Randy? The way the shit clings to the air? Shit blizzard."


                      No no no no no
                      Fuck fuck fuck fuck

                      Savannah as you said yourself is 270 ao backside unity

                      270 meaning spin
                      Ao meaning direction (backwards)
                      Backside meaning you are faced away with your back at the obstacle.

                      Foot position, or whatever you want to considered "unnamed" is not unnamed.
                      How can you sit there and not let it be self explanatory.
                      Personally for me I do them approaching my right side with my right foot in front of my left. That is a unity. If I had my left foot in front crossed over my right it would be the opposite of what felt natural. It would be like going backwards

                      Let that sink in a minute

                      Yeah. It would be like going backwards.
                      Hence alley oop unity.

                      The name savannah is a relic. But it is what it is.


                        Incorrect. I posted this forever ago in some other thread, but let's break it down.

                        The direction you are moving and which leg is crossed over the other is the difference between Unity and Savannah.

                        For instance: moving forward, you jump onto a ledge to your right. You grind frontside with your right leg crossed over your left. This is a Unity. If you were to grind with your left leg crossed over your right, it would be a Savannah.

                        Same goes for backside. On this same ledge to your right, a backside Unity would have your left leg crossed over your right; a backside Savannah would have your right leg crossed over your left.

                        Example: Brian Aragon does a back sav at 1:19 in the Silhan promo.

                        edit: It all comes down to which foot is leading, regardless of direction. Front foot leading? Unity. Back foot leading? Savannah.
                        Last edited by abideinthis; 25.05.2015, 15:28.


                          If you wanna get real technical in a brutish way. In which way right foot over left or left foot over right do you feel you are being guided by or facing more forward aka cock and balls vs backwards aka your ass?

                          Don't worry. I'll give you a minute for that one too.

                          Btw lol


                            Originally posted by cali4niaisdead View Post
                            It would be like going backwards

                            Let that sink in a minute

                            Yeah. It would be like going backwards.
                            Hence alley oop unity.

                            alley-oop doesn't mean going backwards.
                            did you even read what i wrote?

                            Originally posted by cali4niaisdead View Post
                            Savannah as you said yourself is 270 ao backside unity
                            how dense are you? i never said that. i very clearly explained that people call Savannah "270 AO Back Unity" EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT A UNITY. The feet are opposite of a unity, and throwing "alley-oop" in there doesn't fix that because "alley-oop" doesn't mean opposite or backwards.
                            Last edited by Apsley Cherry-Garrard; 25.05.2015, 15:46.

                            "Do you feel that Randy? The way the shit clings to the air? Shit blizzard."


                              Originally posted by abideinthis View Post
                              edit: It all comes down to which foot is leading, regardless of direction. Front foot leading? Unity. Back foot leading? Savannah.

                              that's the whole point of this post. when Savannah was named it was named using the WRONG foot position. people started saying "270 AO Back Unity" even though their feet weren't in a Unity position.

                              AO =/= backward

                              Cali4niaisdead is a dumbass (let that sink in a minute)

                              Seriously, if you're counting on Billy to have been lucid enough back then (college years in Santa Barbara) to think critically, you're counting on the wrong person. This was a lapse in reason that has lasted for almost 20 years, and people are still too defiant to realize they are being stupid. or maybe they know they are being stupid and that the term was messed up, but since it lasted so long they are being defiant to accept it.
                              Last edited by Apsley Cherry-Garrard; 25.05.2015, 17:57.

                              "Do you feel that Randy? The way the shit clings to the air? Shit blizzard."